Britian drowns under health and safety legislation

#1
Front Page New York Times!
York, along with many other municipalities, has often been the scene of huge events — fireworks, bonfires, the burning of creepy effigies of Fawkes — to commemorate the failure of Fawkes’s plan to blow up Parliament and the king in 1605, a shocking moment in British history. But in the face of increasingly onerous regulations, none are taking place in the city this year.

No one — not the local government, nor any local group — wanted to spend the money to “address the health and safety measures of having large numbers of people in close proximity to the fireworks,” a spokeswoman for the City of York Council said.

“You name it, and somebody, somewhere behind a desk, will quickly find a regulation that bans it,” Michael Nicholson, a television correspondent, wrote in an opinion column in The Daily Express. He gave other examples, like the banning of an annual pantomime show in Kent after the local vicar was told he had to pay about $1,400 to “weight test” an iron beam carrying a light bulb, and the organizers were forbidden to store costumes and scenery behind or beneath the stage.

Christmas-light displays in towns, as much a seasonal feature as eating plum pudding and slumping in front of the television with the family after lunch, are another fraught issue. Stephen Alambritis, a spokesman for the Federation of Small Businesses, said many municipalities and businesses were unwilling to spend the money to comply with safety rules governing their installation.

Only registered electricians can put up the lights, and they are required to use cherry pickers, not ladders, Mr. Alambritis said in an interview. Every bulb has to be tested every year to ensure that it is electrically safe and that “it won’t flash in someone’s eyes,” he said.

People are focusing on what they see as the dwindling of one of their favorite old customs. They mention the risible situation last year, when rather than trying to meet the safety requirements for building an actual bonfire, a rugby club in Devon showed 1,400 spectators a short movie of a previous bonfire.

“It’s just ridiculous,” said Rob Anderson, the leader of the Labor opposition on the Slough Borough Council, which decided not to have a bonfire this year. (It will have fireworks, though, along with an Asian Elvis impersonator.) “On Bonfire Night, you have a bonfire. Unfortunately, the people running the council seem to have other ideas, but they don’t seem too clear about the reason why not.”

Among other things, the Slough authorities have argued that a bonfire would violate environmental laws, upset residents from foreign countries with no tradition of Guy Fawkes Day (!)
In full

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/05/world/europe/05york.html?hp
 
#2
Health and Safety Law is yet another blunt weapon in the New Liarbour armoury which they can use to ban anything that doesn't appeal to their Neo Marxist philosophy.
 
#4
I wonder how many Rememberance Parades have been severly curtailed or even banned because of thier failure to meet some obscure interpretation of the H&SAW Act 1974?
 
#5
drain_sniffer said:
Its nothing to do with the Law, its to do with idiots that dont understand it or apply it correctly
Yes Sniffer, but they DO use it for politically motivated purposes rather than it's true purpose.

No need to bring in draconian public order laws when you can just quote H&S concerns. They probably even convince themselves they are on the moral high ground.

Don't like Remembrancer Day? Quote H&S to ensure the veterans can't afford it.

Don't like Christmas? Ditto the above regarding XMas lighting and so on and so forth.

Now if anyone can provide an example of a Non British events being curtailed due to H&S nazism then I'll be suprised!
 
#6
I wonder whether these people are politically motivated at all. There seems to be no real political objective in sight for their actions; no political grouping really benefits from their pronouncements. I'm forced to think that in fact they're just stupid little people with shrivelled balls.
 
#7
Nothing political?

It is social engineering writ large using Health and Safety as the principal means to claim dominion over Christmas, Bonfire Night, Remembrance day or any other cultural event that operates as a collective unifying factor drawing people together in a common unifying bond of national identity which is now a target of cultural Marxism, subject to corrosive legislation the main or dominant purpose of which is it's destruction and replacement by that which the state decrees is politically and socially acceptable.
 
#8
Iolis said:
Nothing political?

It is social engineering writ large using Health and Safety as the principal means to claim dominion over Christmas, Bonfire Night, Remembrance day or any other cultural event that operates as a collective unifying factor drawing people together in a common unifying bond of national identity which is now a target of cultural Marxism, subject to corrosive legislation the main or dominant purpose of which is it's destruction and replacement by that which the state decrees is politically and socially acceptable.
And a convenient piece of legislation to hide behind for useless little pr1cks as described by Whiskybreath.

Do nothing or better still say "NO" - and some people want the H&S arrsholes to have more say in the running of HMF training and admin.

May God help us!
 
#9
Iolis said:
Nothing political?

It is social engineering writ large using Health and Safety as the principal means to claim dominion over Christmas, Bonfire Night, Remembrance day or any other cultural event that operates as a collective unifying factor drawing people together in a common unifying bond of national identity which is now a target of cultural Marxism, subject to corrosive legislation the main or dominant purpose of which is it's destruction and replacement by that which the state decrees is politically and socially acceptable.
Iolis - you ever heard of a fasinating punctuation tool called a full stop? :D I tried to read this in one go and near went into arrest through lack of oxygen!

WB and you are both right. The implementation of these H&S dictates are carried out by muppets with little or no common sense and a fear of litigation.

However, H&S starts somewherre and that is with the policy makers. Those punters are the ones that deserve the recognition for destroying the traditions of this country.
 
#10
The_Cad said:
Now if anyone can provide an example of a Non British events being curtailed due to H&S nazism then I'll be suprised!
The worshipping of an infected bull? :D
 
#11
in_the_cheapseats said:
Iolis said:
Nothing political?

It is social engineering writ large using Health and Safety as the principal means to claim dominion over Christmas, Bonfire Night, Remembrance day or any other cultural event that operates as a collective unifying factor drawing people together in a common unifying bond of national identity which is now a target of cultural Marxism, subject to corrosive legislation the main or dominant purpose of which is it's destruction and replacement by that which the state decrees is politically and socially acceptable.
Iolis - you ever heard of a fasinating punctuation tool called a full stop? :D I tried to read this in one go and near went into arrest through lack of oxygen!

WB and you are both right. The implementation of these H&S dictates are carried out by muppets with little or no common sense and a fear of litigation.

However, H&S starts somewherre and that is with the policy makers. Those punters are the ones that deserve the recognition for destroying the traditions of this country.
Its fascinating the way this thread is going :D However you are correct - we need to stop the rottebefore its too late.

I like Olde Englishe :twisted:
 
#12
smartascarrots said:
The_Cad said:
Now if anyone can provide an example of a Non British events being curtailed due to H&S nazism then I'll be suprised!
The worshipping of an infected bull? :D
That wasn't H&S legislation, it was about the control of bovine TB.
 
#13
Health and Safety legislation is in place to protect people from harm, it is not to be used as some lightweight response by people who hide behind it. It is not H&S legislation that prevents Bonfire night, Rememberence Parades etc, it is idiots who do not use it correctly or understand it.

All it takes is for people to challenge the decisions made by those who hide behined a big banner marked "H&S".

Without wishing to delay the bandwagon that is surely going to depart with all carridges full on this, have a look at what the H&S at work act is asking?

I suspect its people who cannot be arrsed to put the time and effort into proper organisation and assessment of risk to simply say "We stopped it because of H&S", knowing full well that no one else will challenge it as they dont have a clue
 
#14
But Sniffer, abuse of H&S is actually placing lives at risk..look at the PCSO incident with the drowning.

Schools are being hammered with massive insurance costs for things we used to take for granted. Result, lack of competitive sport, more childghood obesity and all the health risks that carries.

Look at the Stockwell thing, its completely contradictory, by shooting Menenez they apparantly breached H&S law. It could also be argued by not shooting him before he got on the bus, they were also in breach of H&S law.

What if he HAD been a bomber and they hesitated due to H&S (Which may be the result of the judgement) How many dead then?

No one is saying there shouldn't be H&S laws but common sense should be factored in.
 
#16
rickshaw-major said:
in_the_cheapseats said:
Iolis said:
Nothing political?

It is social engineering writ large using Health and Safety as the principal means to claim dominion over Christmas, Bonfire Night, Remembrance day or any other cultural event that operates as a collective unifying factor drawing people together in a common unifying bond of national identity which is now a target of cultural Marxism, subject to corrosive legislation the main or dominant purpose of which is it's destruction and replacement by that which the state decrees is politically and socially acceptable.
Iolis - you ever heard of a fasinating punctuation tool called a full stop? :D I tried to read this in one go and near went into arrest through lack of oxygen!

WB and you are both right. The implementation of these H&S dictates are carried out by muppets with little or no common sense and a fear of litigation.

However, H&S starts somewherre and that is with the policy makers. Those punters are the ones that deserve the recognition for destroying the traditions of this country.
Its fascinating the way this thread is going :D However you are correct - we need to stop the rottebefore its too late.

I like Olde Englishe :twisted:
:oops: :oops: I really should review what I've written. Thanks for the embarrassing bolds :D
 
#17
I think the stockwell thing was a sham, and I would agree that potentially not shooting him would surely have placed others at risk, but that is besides the point.

The big issue is that people are now risk averse, and because of the compensation culture that surrounds us, it is easier to just stop an activity rather than take all the necessary measures to ensure that an activity can go ahead safely. No where in any piece of H&S legislation does it say that children cannot play with conkers or any artivle that may harm them.

I would agree that H&S is being used as a political tool. what it takes is for people to just do a little reading and actually find out what the legislation says, and should one of the many examples the Daily Mail like to bring us happen in their local area, they can challenge the decision.

No where in any piece of legislation does it say;

1. You cannot conduct any form of Parade
2. You cannot allow children in school to do anything that may hurt them
3. You cannot allow PCSO's to defy human instinct and not rescue a boy who is drowning in front of your very eyes
4. You can stop any activity by shouting "Its because of H&S" because you cant be arrsed putting the work in

What it does say is that you must assess the risk and take all necessary precautions, AS FAR AS IS REASONABLY PRACTICABLE.

For example, parachuting still goes on in both civi and miltary (occasionaly) circles. Surely if H&S was soooo wrong, that would be the first thing that would have stopped. But it hasnt because people have put the effort in to ensure that all necessary precautions have been taken, AS FAR AS REASONABLY PRACTICABLE

Now, I am aware that I have held this bandwaggon up for far too long and the conductor must be chomping at the bit, so I shall get off here and let you all crack on with your journey
 
#18
Well for our government having a political philosophy that is obsessed with H&S, its strange that they are happy to empty dangerous prisoners onto our nations streets or better still, import them from overseas.

How many peple are killed or seriously injured by early release prisoners I wonder?

What about the H&S of crime victims?
 
#19
drain_sniffer said:
I think the stockwell thing was a sham, and I would agree that potentially not shooting him would surely have placed others at risk, but that is besides the point.

The big issue is that people are now risk averse, and because of the compensation culture that surrounds us, it is easier to just stop an activity rather than take all the necessary measures to ensure that an activity can go ahead safely. No where in any piece of H&S legislation does it say that children cannot play with conkers or any artivle that may harm them.

I would agree that H&S is being used as a political tool. what it takes is for people to just do a little reading and actually find out what the legislation says, and should one of the many examples the Daily Mail like to bring us happen in their local area, they can challenge the decision.

No where in any piece of legislation does it say;

1. You cannot conduct any form of Parade
2. You cannot allow children in school to do anything that may hurt them
3. You cannot allow PCSO's to defy human instinct and not rescue a boy who is drowning in front of your very eyes
4. You can stop any activity by shouting "Its because of H&S" because you cant be arrsed putting the work in
What it does say is that you must assess the risk and take all necessary precautions, AS FAR AS IS REASONABLY PRACTICABLE.


For example, parachuting still goes on in both civi and miltary (occasionaly) circles. Surely if H&S was soooo wrong, that would be the first thing that would have stopped. But it hasnt because people have put the effort in to ensure that all necessary precautions have been taken, AS FAR AS REASONABLY PRACTICABLE

Now, I am aware that I have held this bandwaggon up for far too long and the conductor must be chomping at the bit, so I shall get off here and let you all crack on with your journey
But the difficulty is that unless you insure yourself against the risk, to cover yourself if something does go wrong, you can't allow an activity to go ahead. Councils won't allow it for parades.

Means a payday heaven for insurance companies and little else.

But it hasnt because people have put the effort in to ensure that all necessary precautions have been taken, AS FAR AS REASONABLY PRACTICABLE
means to the satisfaction of the insurer.
 
#20
ITC wrote So far as Reasonably Practicable

"means to the satisfaction of the insurer"

No IRRC the definition is given in Evans V NCB 1949 (Yes I should get out more often) It is the opinion of the first sane man you meet on the Clapham Omnibus.

The problem starts when you meet the universal cry "You can't do that mate Elf and Safety".

99.9% of the time the person concened is speaking b*ll*cks, It's a perfect example of a good bit of legislation being hijacked by ignorant jobsworths.
 

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