Britains deficit to be higher than Greek deficit

#1
And yet one eye continues to p1ss away money on pathetic vote grabbing

"The Government is on course to run up a higher budget deficit this year than Greece after dire figures on the public finances today showed that it borrowed £4.3 billion more than it received in taxes in January, the first time this has happened.

January is usually a bumper month for tax receipts as people submit their tax returns and corporation tax payments fall due.

However, a steep decline in income tax and capital gains tax payments, coupled with a sharp rise in interest payments to cover the Government's debts, forced the Treasury to borrow money to balance its books.

The dire data confounded economists' expectations of a surplus of £2.8 billion, and falls far short of the £5.3 billion surplus recorded in January last year. "


Jonathan Loynes, chief European economist for Capital Economics, said: "Extrapolating the trend forward now points to a full-year borrowing figure of about £180 billion, some £10 billion higher than the Chancellor’s Pre-Budget Report forecast of £170 billion on this borrowing measure.

"This would be the equivalent of around 12.8 per cent of GDP, just in excess of Greece’s 2009 deficit of 12.7 per cent.

"January’s UK public finances figures have further underlined the need for more decisive action to improve the fiscal position when the economy is strong enough to withstand it."


http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/economics/article7031896.ece
 
#2
so if we get a kicking from the EU does that mean we can stop paying them all that dosh which they keep wasting considering were the largest financial contrubuting nation in the EU to the EU coffers, if so would be a good move in the first place.
 
#3
Blogg said:
And yet one eye continues to p1ss away money on pathetic vote grabbing

"The Government is on course to run up a higher budget deficit this year than Greece after dire figures on the public finances today showed that it borrowed £4.3 billion more than it received in taxes in January, the first time this has happened.

January is usually a bumper month for tax receipts as people submit their tax returns and corporation tax payments fall due.

However, a steep decline in income tax and capital gains tax payments, coupled with a sharp rise in interest payments to cover the Government's debts, forced the Treasury to borrow money to balance its books.

The dire data confounded economists' expectations of a surplus of £2.8 billion, and falls far short of the £5.3 billion surplus recorded in January last year. "


Jonathan Loynes, chief European economist for Capital Economics, said: "Extrapolating the trend forward now points to a full-year borrowing figure of about £180 billion, some £10 billion higher than the Chancellor’s Pre-Budget Report forecast of £170 billion on this borrowing measure.

"This would be the equivalent of around 12.8 per cent of GDP, just in excess of Greece’s 2009 deficit of 12.7 per cent.

"January’s UK public finances figures have further underlined the need for more decisive action to improve the fiscal position when the economy is strong enough to withstand it."


http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/economics/article7031896.ece
So this is all based on the phrase:

Extrapolating the trend forward

Shock. Horror. Probe. Sensation.
 
#4
Extrapolating the trend forward is certainly more accurate than Brown's estimate of the Deficit for the year that he told Darling to announce.

The sooner they are out of office the better for this country, at least someone can start to turn round the financial disaster area Gordon Brown has left in his path.
 
#5
bonehead21L said:
so if we get a kicking from the EU does that mean we can stop paying them all that dosh which they keep wasting considering were the largest financial contrubuting nation in the EU to the EU coffers, if so would be a good move in the first place.
I think the boxheads pay the most.
 
#6
France pays the most then Germany. UK is third highest contributor but only just ahead of Italy.

Edited to say: France and German contributions are way more than UK.
 
#7
#8
We just had a meeting about this issue (forcasting expenses) and it goes like this.

They know they have X number of pensioners due now, or coming soon. They most likely have the market investments picking up some of the expense but as the market contribution decreases, the government contribution increases and therefore you have higher expenses for the same people.
 
#9
Haven't you lot been watching the party political broadcasts, err I mean news?

Government spending on a scale that hasn't been seen since Nero moved into the Domus Aurea and said 'This place would look nice in gold' is essential if Gordon's recovery from the rest of the world's global recession is to be maintained. People who would argue otherwise just don't understand economics. That's people like Dave with his Oxford degree in, err, economics.

Let me list some recent expenditure and try to explain the consequences of stopping it:-

National Chip Week £100,000
Hosted each year by Keith Chegwin to encourage us all to eat more chips. Without this vital investment by the National Potato Council, Cheggars would be back on telly to haunt us with reruns of Cheggars Plays Pop and a new series of that jungle show which he presented while not wearing any clothes.

NHS Healthy Eating £50 million
Do any of you realise just how many chips are consumed in this country? The consequences are horrendous. Blocked arteries, grease spots on clothes, the dry cleaning costs alone are crippling. Something has to be done. The NHS simply cannot justify spending scarce funding to treat heart attacks, strokes and kids with chips stuck up their nose when there are asylum seekers who sometimes have to wait days for vital, cosmetic surgery to enable them to start a career in Bollywood.

Global Warming £1 billion (figures available for last week only)
When asked 'How can we afford to spend this?', the Prime Minister replied 'We can't afford not to.' This masterpiece of understatement is good enough for me.

Army Muslim Recruitment £90 million
The army faces a 'diversity crisis' according to MoD. There simply aren't enough minority squaddies to provide a backdrop for the photos every time Gordon goes to Afghanistan. £90 million quid was a small price to pay to recruit 13 Muslims. I mean, what else would they spend it on? Don't you know the Cold War is over?

Fascinating Performance Artist £4000
Four grand to get Mark McGowan, one of our leading Young British Artists, to dress up as a soldier and lie down in the street in Brimingham pretending to be dead for a whole morning is a bargain. Government funded art protesting against a government funded war. The apparent contradiction in funding priorities is, in itself, a work of art on a par with National Chip Week. Mark's latest project will involve crawling through Wooton Basset with a sign round his neck. This builds upon his recent, well received crawl round New York while wearing a George Bush mask and his long distance crawl to Downing Street while pushing a peanut with his nose. Anybody who doesn't understand this is clearly Phylis, sister of Bob Stein.

NHS Carbon Footprint Reduction Managers £95,000 per year
Now that Nuclear Free Zone Officers are yesterday's fad, .......


..... it's no use. I can't keep this up. Blood, pi$$ and all my other body fluids are boiling. Suffice to say we're in the 'madhouse' phase of the economic cycle. Unsurprising as Gordon is reputedly chairing meetings with his advisors while dressed only in his underpants. We may need to get him out before the election.
 
#10
Funny thing is we have already reached the Dennis Healey socialist moment, that is, comes a point when raising taxes no longer increases revenue merely changes behaviour. So how are the socialist scum going to bring down the deficit?

Ashie? What are your friends saying?

I assume your red mates are planning to take away pension relief for starters. Gordon Brown talks about aspirations, what exactly would he know about that?
 
#11
stacker1 said:
exbleep said:
France pays the most then Germany. UK is third highest contributor but only just ahead of Italy.

Edited to say: France and German contributions are way more than UK.
Not unless its changed in the last 2 years

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,3444385,00.html
Page 5 of http://register.consilium.europa.eu/pdf/en/09/st15/st15445.en09.pdf
gives the 2010 contributions and France is higher.
Of course, this doesn't tell the whole story. Whilst France is the highest contributor, it gets more back so is actually a lower net contributor than Germany.
According to a Danish EU site (figures only available to 2007) Britain is the second highest net contributor after Germany.
http://www.eu-oplysningen.dk/euo_en/spsv/all/79/
 
#12
nigegilb said:
Funny thing is we have already reached the Dennis Healey socialist moment, that is, comes a point when raising taxes no longer increases revenue merely changes behaviour. So how are the socialist scum going to bring down the deficit?

Ashie? What are your friends saying?

I assume your red mates are planning to take away pension relief for starters. Gordon Brown talks about aspirations, what exactly would he know about that?
I believe they're planning a tin-foil hat tax on rightists posting on ARRSE. But that might just be an extrapolation.
 
A

ALVIN

Guest
#13
This fact just highlights the gross incompetence's of our present Labour Government!
Mind you, most M.Ps have MUCH MORE interest in what they can get for themselves these days, rather than the state of our country!
Sad but true. :twisted:
 
#14
ashie said:
I believe they're planning a tin-foil hat tax on rightists posting on ARRSE. But that might just be an extrapolation.
That sounds nasty!

Did it hurt much when you had yours done?
 
#15
ashie said:
nigegilb said:
Funny thing is we have already reached the Dennis Healey socialist moment, that is, comes a point when raising taxes no longer increases revenue merely changes behaviour. So how are the socialist scum going to bring down the deficit?
I believe they're planning a tin-foil hat tax on rightists posting on ARRSE. But that might just be an extrapolation.
No need for that. All is well. Nothing to worry about.

Under control because the need to cut public spending is, according to the cretin who currently sits in No. 10, a myth

"The great myth the right are spreading through their friends in the press is that government caused this crisis and that government spending is prolonging it."

"They seek to frighten us with the present level of the deficit but mention neither the automatic reduction that would be achieved as and when growth is resumed, nor the effects of growth on investor confidence for the good of the British people."


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/new...inister-says-need-to-cut-spending-a-myth.html

Well now that really is rich: nothing to do with us and no need to worry because everything will by some unexplained process be OK (some day in the unspecified future) irrespective of the vast funding costs associated with having generated and continuing to generate crippling levels of public debt.

(Caution: Bunker Mentality at work.)
 
#16
'A myth'! Brown is now wholly deluded and is obviously in need of clinical help.

An interesting quip I read somewhere (please forgive non-attribution) stated that a journalist, entertaining a government minister to lunch, asked him what would be the first thing that Labour would do if they won the forthcoming election.

Having recovered from a choking fit the minister replied: get rid of Brown!

Happy days!
 
#17
nigegilb said:
Funny thing is we have already reached the Dennis Healey socialist moment, that is, comes a point when raising taxes no longer increases revenue merely changes behaviour. So how are the socialist scum going to bring down the deficit?

Ashie? What are your friends saying?

I assume your red mates are planning to take away pension relief for starters. Gordon Brown talks about aspirations, what exactly would he know about that?
Ah - the old Laffer Curve. Or is it Laafer Curve? Buggirt if I know.

We've gone far beyond the peak of the curve. Tax revenues are dropping without any help from HMRC, rather than in response to tax rate rises. We're now in the rarely entered part of the curve where tax rates are high enough to damage the economy while tax revenues are falling like a stone.

Dennis Healy famously went cap in hand to the IMF for a loan last time Labour bankrupted Britain by funding the nationalised industries. IIRC, UK debt then was about half what it is now.

Now, times have changed. In addition to being the second biggest contributor to the EU (the Sicillian Mafia wont fund itself you know). We're the fourth biggest contributor to the IMF (the King of Swaziland's fleet of BMWs wont buy their own road tax either). Gordon's largesse knows no bounds.

The odd £13 million to cure African Goat Plague (I kid ye not) and a billion here and there to save the planet from global warming are merely slightly skid marked Y-fronts in the face of Gordon's fiscal dysentery.

I almost felt sorry for the unionistas and their brass band standing outside the Corus steelworks last night as the blast furnace was switched off for the first, and last, time. That billion Gordon gave away last month to 'save poor nations from climate change' would have kept the plant afloat for 6 years!

With corporation tax rates of nearly double the OECD average and a requirement to find £100 million worth of carbon credits every year (to save the planet natch), Tata moving the business back to an Indian Special Economic Zone where corporation tax is zero and where you can spew as much pollution as you like was really a no brainer.

Add the fact that Tata can now sell this year's carbon credits that Gordon gave them for free last year and you've got a Labour government giving a British company £100 million quid to make its workers redundant and relocate to an Asian tax haven.

There is a growing school of thought that nobody is stupid enough to do that by accident. Jobs are being exported to India and UK companies get massive tax breaks to replace UK staff with Indian nationals in the UK because Gordon has decreed that the Indians deserve the jobs more than us Brits do.

Good old Gordon. Dave really must find a way to prosecute him after the election.
 
#18
How the Curse of Jonah Brown blights everything:

Saturday: "They seek to frighten us with the present level of the deficit but mention neither the automatic reduction that would be achieved as and when growth is resumed, nor the effects of growth on investor confidence for the good of the British people."

Monday: "Even though the UK has technically emerged out of recession, the report warns that there will be "no return to business as usual" for some time to come.

The report accuses UK boardrooms of being "blinkered", following research that showed almost half of UK board directors – 44pc – predict that their companies would return to "pre-recession normality" and that their businesses would not fundamentally change in the next five years."


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...state-of-the-economy-after-the-recession.html

So businesses (and also the Government) have blinded themselves to the very obvious fact that there has been a behavioural shift by consumers because the debt funded boom is over.

We have for example way too many large (debt funded) shopping centres all trying to sell sh1t that nobody really wants any more because they are skint or being properly cautious (unlike our Government) and trying to pay down their credit cards and overdrafts.

There can be no "return to normal" because the past debt boom norm is a busted flush. Businesses need to adapt to that or die and so does the UK Government. Yet still our man is cr@pping on about the need to reduce public spending being a myth!

Whoever wins the next election, there is no option: the axe will have to fall very hard.
 
#19
To be fair to Dennis Healey, to his immense credit, he did try to address the budget deficit by trying to rein in spending and get the UK economy back under control after the lunacy of his government's mis-management. He put in place the mechanisms which the incoming Conservatives built on but faced the backlash from his own party and the unions.

Healey put country before party and probably cost the Labour Party the election. What is the chance of Brown and Darling doing the same?
 
#20
This really is only half the story. The biggest single problem, which sits like an elephant in the room, is PFI. Any measure of deficit or debt is merely a drop in the ocean. PFI is killing the public services and will eventually destroy our country.

Unfortunately, no government is going to come in and immediately get rid of it - because they would then be unable to build any new buildings and service provision and innovation would collapse.

So we are stuck with it. I will not vote for any party that does not promise to get rid of PFI. Nothing else is doing us greater damage.
 

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