Britain threatens to withdraw from the JSF again !

Discussion in 'The Intelligence Cell' started by stolly, Dec 10, 2006.

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    We are starting to sound like a stuck record. I thought this was sorted in August.
  2. Who exactly is asking ministers to scrap JSF???
  3. Thanks Stolly, a much better report.

    The Beeb report was a little vague, are they advocating pulling out of the venture altogether or are they wanting to stall until we get the rights to the technical information.
  4. The sooner we pull out, the sooner we can marinise the Typhoon and save ourselves heaps of cash, as well as clawing back some from Typhoon's laughably managed developed costs.
  5. I'd say the Rafale would be a better value proposition, especially that is what will be operated from the other CVF anyway....

    Given the track record of the Typhoon development plus the risk associated with any attempt to change the design it seems the common sense solution.

    In addition, the French are about to close the Rafale production line and quite possibly would give us a knockdown price, just to keep the lines open and secure the jobs.

    Hell, we could even joint fund a next generation of Super-Rafale with some production done here, for less risk and cost of funding a SeaTyphoon.
  6. I'm not clear how we could just pause our development. We'd have to leave, and then rejoin it late on. That would be incredibly expensive, hard to justify and perhaps not a little humiliating. The press would love it.
  7. As I understand it the aircraft is developed and the JDC are prostponing/pulling out of the procurement of the aircraft, not the further development of it.

    As to the choice of aircraft, I would much rather have the JSF than either of the others mentioned as its hovering capabilities are invaluble
  8. in_the_cheapseats

    in_the_cheapseats LE Moderator

    Invaluable for what?
  9. That bowing thing Harriers do at air shows?
  10. we should be using our own home grown industry so that we won't become prey to external spares supplies that could be easily turned off like a tap s when it suits them in order to bring us into line.
  11. The Rafale is, in comparison, an aged aircraft now and, yes, it does already offer a marinised version, I'm not convinced of the benefits of adding another airframe to the inventory. More spares, more training and more complications. Having a common platform such as the Typhoon would reap its own rewards.

    I have to agree with in_the_cheapseats on this one. The hover capabilities of the Harrier when fully loaded are notoriously short-lived and, to my knowledge, have never been used in actual conflict. The advantage of the STOVL configuration on the current batch of carriers is proven, but they are smaller and require such aircraft. The CVF design has been intentionally configured for the option of assisted take off/arrested landing so no huge design changes would be required.

    The JSF is already too heavy and won't be going anywhere without a ski ramp, not if it wants to operate in any CAS role. If they can solve the weight/range issues that have been plaguing its development, on top of every other issue that's been coming tis way then great. If not then we should cut and run on a development that is inevitably going to be late, costly and leave is very firmly screwed by our spam brethren.
  12. the hover capability was used to some effect in the Falkland war, the pilot used it to perform unusual manouveres in dog fights with the argies fighters out foxing them
  13. I read both Sharkey Wards book and Dave Morgans as well. They were both leading figures in the SHAR world in that conflict. I don't recall either of them mentiong that the hover capability was used or even useful in combat.

    Dave Morgan did mention what a pain in the arse landing vertically in the dark during bad weather was, who knows if its harder or more dangerous than conventional landing.
  14. How common would it be ? 70% ? 50% ? 30% ? Making it navalised is more than just fitting a hook and making its wings fold...

    The Rafale is not the latest and greatest, but it is proven and does work. It will be operated from the third CVF anyway, making a common carrier a possibilty rather than the slightly different versions under consideration now.