Britain - The descent into the third world

Yokel

LE
Most English teachers are Lit graduates so...
say to the LO FUNEX world of tomorrow.
LOL PMSL RFLMAFAO et cetera.

Are they? Not English Language?

They're actually a mid ranking uni, which isn't too bad for an ex-Poly but they're nowhere near Durham's standing.
They're chopping the course for the publicity, I imagine. Don't understand why, no one will come to its rescue with sponsorship.
Eng Lit is a very popular generalist's degree and is a bread and cheese subject so very cheap to run. English (lang and lit combined) and English Language are harder to find, finance and to get on. Bizarre decision as its probably going to cost them at least 200 students p.a.. I've no idea of their standing in the Eng Lit tables, as I'm out of it now.

I am not trying to be funny - but what skills or knowledge does the generalist offer? Do they try to see everything through a class literature lens? How does the English literature graduates ability to solve problems compare with that of a STEM graduate?

Are logical analysis, numeracy, and understanding cause and effect part of it?
 
I
Are they? Not English Language?



I am not trying to be funny - but what skills or knowledge does the generalist offer? Do they try to see everything through a class literature lens? How does the English literature graduates ability to solve problems compare with that of a STEM graduate?

Are logical analysis, numeracy, and understanding cause and effect part of it?
I'm a member of the local shooting club. Every couple of months or so we have a meeting and someone has to take the minutes. Everyone gets a go, but there are a lot of different styles around. When I do it, it tends to be a list of things that happened, the facts that were established and the decisions that were reached. Sort of like mess minutes. There is another guy who works in advertising and when it's his turn the whole thing comes out a lot more like a story, with witty asides, observations and a sort of impression of what it was all about. I'm an engineer and his degree was languages. That's what they bring to the party, which is no bad thing in and of itself.
 
Are they? Not English Language?



I am not trying to be funny - but what skills or knowledge does the generalist offer? Do they try to see everything through a class literature lens? How does the English literature graduates ability to solve problems compare with that of a STEM graduate?

Are logical analysis, numeracy, and understanding cause and effect part of it?

How many words can you read in a day or hour? How much can you retain?
How quickly can you break down huge tracts of text, analaysing themes, identifying consistencies/inconsistencies of argument(s), synthesise & summarise?
It's a poor graduate of Eng Lit that can't do that with the equivalent of a middling sized novel (a day).
Eng Lit students are expected to know and be able to apply the six main disciplines/schools of textual analysis to any body of text, even govt gubbins.
Not everything requires STEM mindsets, I suppose. I'm not a Lit wallah, I'm English (Lit, Lang & Linguistics).
 
"... skinny rat faced ..."! The must be a genetic trait that is applied globally, inter alia, to a particular demographic, who seem to all be similarly so-blessed.

Hooker and Butterworth referred to them as chipmunks in the MASH novels.

Chip monkeys perhaps?
 

Truxx

LE
How many words can you read in a day or hour? How much can you retain?
How quickly can you break down huge tracts of text, analaysing themes, identifying consistencies/inconsistencies of argument(s), synthesise & summarise?
It's a poor graduate of Eng Lit that can't do that with the equivalent of a middling sized novel (a day).
Eng Lit students are expected to know and be able to apply the six main disciplines/schools of textual analysis to any body of text, even govt gubbins.
Not everything requires STEM mindsets, I suppose. I'm not a Lit wallah, I'm English (Lit, Lang & Linguistics).
I read all Emcons posts

Does that count?

Don't understand a word of what he is on about mind you. But I am unsure if that is a failure on my part.
 

ancienturion

LE
Book Reviewer
I read all Emcons posts

Does that count?

Don't understand a word of what he is on about mind you. But I am unsure if that is a failure on my part.
I am not an English language purist by any means, but he has a unique ability to make me grind my teeth reading his butchering of the language.
 
It seems that the poly-come-uni crowd have finally decided to give up on genuine studies and really going for the money makers.
Absolutely disgraceful, RM jr now a fully fledged English teacher said the other year after graduating that he was stopping on to do his Masters, after a debate about getting out there and getting a job with what he had already achieved, he said " Dad, anyone can get a degree in butterfly collecting now, I need to stand above the rest" He has a point it seems,
 
Absolutely disgraceful, RM jr now a fully fledged English teacher said the other year after graduating that he was stopping on to do his Masters, after a debate about getting out there and getting a job with what he had already achieved, he said " Dad, anyone can get a degree in butterfly collecting now, I need to stand above the rest" He has a point it seems,
Indeed when my daughter was completing her degree she and all her contemporaries were discussing what Masters they would be studying, they justified this further study on just such a premise, how do I stand out from the crowd who all have first degrees?

During her time applying for jobs, a lot of it online she got the opportunity to chat to other candidates, the majority had gone down the Masters route as that had become the discriminator that companies were using to make the first cut, no longer a 1st or 2:1 from a Russel Group or even Oxbridge.
 
Indeed when my daughter was completing her degree she and all her contemporaries were discussing what Masters they would be studying, they justified this further study on just such a premise, how do I stand out from the crowd who all have first degrees?

During her time applying for jobs, a lot of it online she got the opportunity to chat to other candidates, the majority had gone down the Masters route as that had become the discriminator that companies were using to make the first cut, no longer a 1st or 2:1 from a Russel Group or even Oxbridge.

Following a US trend again.
 

Grownup_Rafbrat

ADC
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Reviews Editor
Absolutely disgraceful, RM jr now a fully fledged English teacher said the other year after graduating that he was stopping on to do his Masters, after a debate about getting out there and getting a job with what he had already achieved, he said " Dad, anyone can get a degree in butterfly collecting now, I need to stand above the rest" He has a point it seems,
Exactly the same conversation with my offspring in his field of expertise.

Seems to me that a degree is now so devalued that the Masters is essential to get a good job, whatever you do.
 
Same in aviation. Few people thought they could jump the queue and make up for lack of experience by buying type ratings. Everyone had to do it to compete and where the companies would usually have bonded the best person for the job and paid for the rating, they're now laughing all the way to the bank at all the kiddies rolling up with type ratings up the ying yang and no experience.

They can pick and choose, costs them nothing, get rid of people without forfeiting the bond and the kiddies are back in the same position they were twenty years ago competing on a peer level, but now with an added debt burden for all those ratings and little to no security of emplyment. Still unemployable, still competing for low level entry jobs but now with a mountain of debt and a self financed type rating that costs the company nothing if they get binned.

Only problem now is the companies are not having to select the best person for the job based on quals and experience. They're getting an amorphous mass with few outstanding characteristics so those with the experience and quals but who haven't got rich parents to buy them type ratings or have families to look after are now superceded by junior with no clue but the right boxes checked. As a result you're getting people entering the industry and being employed who can't hand fly and can't be trusted alone on the flight deck in case a curve ball bites them.
 
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"We are going to hell in a handcart", just to add to my pantheon of antiquated well used phrase such as "not the full shilling" and "queer as a nine Bob note" just mentioned in the Katie Price thread.

And whilst admiring a nice rack "not many to the pound"!
 
Are they? Not English Language?



I am not trying to be funny - but what skills or knowledge does the generalist offer? Do they try to see everything through a class literature lens? How does the English literature graduates ability to solve problems compare with that of a STEM graduate?

Are logical analysis, numeracy, and understanding cause and effect part of it?
I don't know if it's still true but a quite a few years back I was partly responsible for the selection for the grad intake for the IT dept at a large retail chemists. We used to look back over the previous 3, 5 and 10 years and see if we could identify the subjects that the better programmers, analysts , project mgrs etc had had.

English, and other languages featured highly for programmers and analysts. STEM subjects for project managers and engineers.
 
Following a US trend again.
I didn't come under any pressure at Durham to continue with a further degree. But after joining the NHS there was work-centred emphasis on further specialization following which I returned for the MA - but it was just that, further specialization in a post I already had.

The US type emphasis was certainly visible when I went to work in an American-centred organization in the mid-east where the indigenous hierarchy regarded a 'masters' with the same fascination as a doctorate. There again, some of the Yanks referred to their 'masters degree' as MD - Ben Casey walts the lot of them. Class consciousness takes a different form across the pond............but it is still there.
 

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