Britain First potentially stopped from hosting demo

But our belief system (democracy, religion, humanist, Jedi or other - take your pick) should be mature enough to take the criticism and/or offence without over-reacting or retaliating. That's check-mate I believe!
We do, every day.

As shown by the video, through ignorance or fear, successive governments in this country have bent over backwards, to accommodate Islam and, it's supposed idiosyncrasies, which if transposed to a Middle Eastern Muslim country would get short shrift from whichever regime was ruling at the time and, most of the 'gobby' f**kers would end up in the local prison population, or worse !

Check mate..........I think not
 

Sadurian

LE
Book Reviewer
By Islam, we're called Christians for a reason, we believe Jesus Christ was/is the Son of God, hence Christians.

Islam teaches, he was a prophet, on a par with Abraham and, all the other prophets of the Old Testament.

They also teach that, as a Christian I'm a non-believer and, worth less than the camel shit on their slippers.

We (Christians) believe in 'live and let live', they believe in absolutism, the list is endless but, the reason the 'moderates' appear 'reasonable' in this country is because, they are in this country and, have to abide by our laws (most of the time).
That's a very one-sided view of the two religions and very cherry-picked. You evidently don't agree that the persecution of other religions was done by Christians then? A brief look at the world and at history will give plenty of evidence that they do.

Believing that your interpretation of your invisible friend (and all his invisible chums) is more powerful and valid than another person's invisible friend (and his own invisible chums) is common to most religions. That is not the same, however, as persecuting and deliberately provoking worshippers of another faith in a manner calculated to offend. Unless you have the moral strength of wet tissue paper, knowing that someone else doesn't believe what you believe is not persecution or provocation.

As I've already said, I believe that Muslims need to understand that their religious laws do not apply to others by default, something most, certainly in this country, have grasped. I work with Muslims and they do not, for example, try to make me fast during Ramadan or give up alcohol. There is no attempt at any form of conversion. By contrast, I used to work with a Christian who was constantly telling me how to live my life to avoid damnation.

There are extremist Christians, both lay worshippers and preachers, who act just as bad in the name of their religion as extremist Muslims. It is not the religion, it is the individual. Being a Christian or a Muslim or a Pastafarian doesn't make you an extremist idiot, you have to be that idiot in the first place and simply looking for thin validation of your idiotic views.

The Muslim religion is, at its core, more expansionist than many and certainly the Qu'ran teaches violent conversion. So does the Bible, however. Most modern Christians and Muslims are aware that the interpretation of their religion needs to be less confrontational in the modern world, and are happy to do so. There are, however, fundamentalists of both faiths who use their religion as an excuse for hatred and bigotry.
 
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Sadurian

LE
Book Reviewer
Is there actually much evidence of Muslim young idiots?
They are the same as any population, they have young men (and women) who want to fight the world and are happy to use the first excuse. Look at those travelling to Syria and Iraq to join ISIS/ISIL.
I know they have their share of unsavoury clots, but are they as antagonistic as BF - who "patrol" in a Snatch, invade Mosques and generally get in the face of every Muslim they possibly can?
No, I doubt that they are that stupid. Let's be honest, most people aren't. There are bound to be some, however, for whom the BF provide the final straw to break their back. I imagine that Luton's Imams are regularly wagging a cautionary finger at the Muslim community's angrier residents, persuading them not to act the way the BF want them to.
 
That's a very one-sided view of the two religions and very cherry-picked. You evidently don't agree that the persecution of other religions was done by Christians then? A brief look at the world and at history will give plenty of evidence that they do.

Believing that your interpretation of your invisible friend (and all his invisible chums) is more powerful and valid than another person's invisible friend (and his own invisible chums) is common to most religions. That is not the same, however, as persecuting and deliberately provoking worshippers of another faith in a manner calculated to offend. Unless you have the moral strength of wet tissue paper, knowing that someone else doesn't believe what you believe is not persecution or provocation.

As I've already said, I believe that Muslims need to understand that their religious laws do not apply to others by default, something most, certainly in those country, have grasped. I work with Muslims and they do not, for example, try to make me fast during Ramadan or give up alcohol. There is no attempt at any form of conversion. By contrast, I used to work with a Christian who was constantly telling me how to live my life to avoid damnation.

There are extremist Christians, both lay worshippers and preachers, who act just as bad in the name of their religion as extremist Muslims. It is not the religion, it is the individual. Being a Christian or a Muslim or a Pastafarian doesn't make you an extremist idiot, you have to be that idiot in the first place and simply looking for thin validation of your idiotic views.

The Muslim religion is, at its core, more expansionist than many and certainly the Qu'ran teaches violent conversion. So does the Bible, however. Most modern Christians and Muslims are aware that the interpretation of their religion needs to be less confrontation in the modern world, and are happy to do so. There are, however, fundamentalists of both faiths who use their religion as an excuse for hatred and bigotry.
How far do you want to go in history ?

Your second paragraph is rubbish because at no time have I said my religion is better than Islam, we worship the same God, I merely point out why my religion is called Christianity and, why Islam insults it every day.

Your third paragraph is laughable, clutching at straws to justify an argument, he 'might' have told you that you're damned, but he didn't kill you to prove the point, 'live and let live'.

Fourth paragraph, the last time an extremist Christian blew up a train,bus, people in the name of the Christian religion or, as today in Lyon decapitated an innocent human being ?

You're right it's not the religion, it's the individuals, unfortunately there seem to be more offended Muslims than, Christians in this argument.

The point is, Muslims come to this country because of our tolerance, and the first thing they do is try to change it to suit them, shouting about Sharia law.

Most come from the shitholes of the World and, then try to change this nation into the shithole they've come from, no other non-Christian religion in this country tries to do so, why are they so special in the eyes of successive governments.

It's about time, someone stood up to them and said "If you don't like our ways. customs and, laws, there are airports, ferries and rail services at your disposal, to go elsewhere.

As one erudite Australian put it " Fit in, or F**k Off", works for me. :)
 

Sadurian

LE
Book Reviewer
Your second paragraph is rubbish because at no time have I said my religion is better than Islam, we worship the same God, I merely point out why my religion is called Christianity and, why Islam insults it every day.
This thread is not about you, personally. My point was about conflict between religions and not about you as a person. If you believe that Islam is daily insulting Christianity, why do you not believe that Christianity is daily insulting Islam? You cannot see both sides and nor does it sound like you want to.

Your third paragraph is laughable, clutching at straws to justify an argument, he 'might' have told you that you're damned, but he didn't kill you to prove the point, 'live and let live'.
I haven't been killed or directly threatened by members of any other religion wanting to convert me either. That does in no way invalidate what I was saying, which is that most British Muslims (and Muslims in other countries too) have adapted their religion to suit the modern world and their new culture.

Fourth paragraph, the last time an extremist Christian blew up a train,bus, people in the name of the Christian religion or, as today in Lyon decapitated an innocent human being ?
I do not intend to get into some sort of religious fundamentalist dick-waving contest, but think of incidents such as the 1996 Centennial Olympic Park bombing or the 2012 Wisconsin Sikh Temple Massacre. Fundamentalist Christians do commit terrorist attacks, and murderers have killed in the name of their religion, including Christians, since records began. That does not make all Christians terrorists in the same way as attacks in the name of Islam do not make all Muslims terrorists.

You're right it's not the religion, it's the individuals, unfortunately there seem to be more offended Muslims than, Christians in this argument.
With attitudes like yours out there, can you blame Muslims for feeling offended? I feel offended every time someone blames me for the actions of someone sharing my skin colour, hobby or gender. I get angry when feminists say that I am a rapist-in-waiting because men have raped women. Were I a Muslim and was told that I was a dangerous liability and should leave the country or stop following my religion then I would feel pretty offended to.

The point is, Muslims come to this country because of our tolerance, and the first thing they do is try to change it to suit them, shouting about Sharia law.
And the first thing that you do is try to bully them to change their beliefs by being an angry bigot (see your last paragraphs) rather than through discussion. They are changing their beliefs to adapt. Some don't, but the majority do. I have already stated (twice now, in fact) that they need to do this. Unfortunately, you do not appear willing to give any credit to those who have done so.

Most come from the shitholes of the World and, then try to change this nation into the shithole they've come from, no other non-Christian religion in this country tries to do so, why are they so special in the eyes of successive governments.

It's about time, someone stood up to them and said "If you don't like our ways. customs and, laws, there are airports, ferries and rail services at your disposal, to go elsewhere.

As one erudite Australian put it " Fit in, or F**k Off", works for me. :)
I guess the diplomatic corps rejected your application then.
 
Ref the conflict between Islam and other religions.
Let's not forget that as "people of the book" Jews and Christians are allowed to carry out Halal slaughter, and in actual *fact* rather than the narrow view of the zealots, they should be friendly between each other.
To quote my old man "there's too many Christians and not enough Christianity." Could be applied to Muslims as well.
 
This thread is not about you, personally. My point was about conflict between religions and not about you as a person. If you believe that Islam is daily insulting Christianity, why do you not believe that Christianity is daily insulting Islam? You cannot see both sides and nor does it sound like you want to.


I haven't been killed or directly threatened by members of any other religion wanting to convert me either. That does in no way invalidate what I was saying, which is that most British Muslims (and Muslims in other countries too) have adapted their religion to suit the modern world and their new culture.


I do not intend to get into some sort of religious fundamentalist dick-waving contest, but think of incidents such as the 1996 Centennial Olympic Park bombing or the 2012 Wisconsin Sikh Temple Massacre. Fundamentalist Christians do commit terrorist attacks, and murderers have killed in the name of their religion, including Christians, since records began. That does not make all Christians terrorists in the same way as attacks in the name of Islam do not make all Muslims terrorists.


With attitudes like yours out there, can you blame Muslims for feeling offended? I feel offended every time someone blames me for the actions of someone sharing my skin colour, hobby or gender. I get angry when feminists say that I am a rapist-in-waiting because men have raped women. Were I a Muslim and was told that I was a dangerous liability and should leave the country or stop following my religion then I would feel pretty offended to.


And the first thing that you do is try to bully them to change their beliefs by being an angry bigot (see your last paragraphs) rather than through discussion. They are changing their beliefs to adapt. Some don't, but the majority do. I have already stated (twice now, in fact) that they need to do this. Unfortunately, you do not appear willing to give any credit to those who have done so.


I guess the diplomatic corps rejected your application then.
Okay according to you I'm a bigot, nice easy way to try and finish an argument, you really do need to read the posts

I would suggest you read the definition of bigot, before accusing me, as for bully way to go, that kind of PC bullshit is what has caused the trouble in the first.

I'm am neither prejudiced or intolerant against Islam, I don't go out looking for Muslims to shout at and abuse (try walking around Whitechapel and, other parts of the East End some evenings).

I have nothing against the Muslim religion, I have lots of problems with Muslims in this country per se, I don't believe they have the right to criticise my country, my religion or, the way they perceive they are treated in this country (which is better than most Muslim countries) without first looking inwards.

Try asking yourself why they came to this country in the first place, given that Christians are a bigoted, bloodthirsty lot, with a long history of killing and burning Muslims, don't you find it strange that they come here knowing our culture and customs will offend their religious beliefs but, came anyway ?

As for the Diplomatic Corps, sorry not gullible enough, I don't believe that millions of Dollars of Oil Revenue can, change a 'Thousand Year' Desert Arab attitude overnight and, yes I was out there before they 'civilised' the places, including Libya before Gaddafi.

Getting back to the original OP, you obviously think it's okay for an unauthorised Muslim demo to go ahead but, have a problem when a Right Wing group goes through the proper channels to have a demo of their own (which I don't condone), what price democracy and, a level playing field, eh ?
 

Sadurian

LE
Book Reviewer
Okay according to you I'm a bigot, nice easy way to try and finish an argument, you really do need to read the posts

I would suggest you read the definition of bigot, before accusing me, as for bully way to go, that kind of PC bullshit is what has caused the trouble in the first.
Someone intolerant of a different position? Yes, I'm aware of the definition. Also of bully.

I'm am neither prejudiced or intolerant against Islam,
Your language in this thread, including the rest of your post, suggests otherwise, but I'm sure you know yourself best.

Getting back to the original OP, you obviously think it's okay for an unauthorised Muslim demo to go ahead but, have a problem when a Right Wing group goes through the proper channels to have a demo of their own (which I don't condone), what price democracy and, a level playing field, eh ?
No I don't, as you'd see had you read my initial responses to this thread.

I do not agree with the decision and I do not agree that burying a pig on a mosque site is okay either. I do not believe that terrorism is okay, whether by white Christians or brown Muslims. I do not believe that painting swastikas on temples is okay (although that was a Hindu temple and the swastika is not offensive to them, it was the intent that I disagree with). I do not agree with painting all Islam with the same brush or of doing the same with Christians, white people, men, women or whatever.

Nor do I believe in any sort of greater deity, but I do not go about killing people (of any colour faith or ethnic group) to prove how much I disagree with their point of view.
 
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Sadurian

LE
Book Reviewer
Much as I'd love for them to be hit by the huge legal bill and inconvenienced, I think it is the right decision by the court. Apart from anything else, it takes the wind out of the sails of those complaining that Muslims or other minority groups get preferential treatment. We just need the Muslims to keep a dignified silence to avoid violence.

With luck, the march will be poorly attended, it will rain in them, and the media will get some lovely pictures of snarling swastika-covered Neanderthals to publicise the group's values.
 
Someone intolerant of a different position? Yes, I'm aware of the definition. Also of bully.


Your language in this thread, including the rest of your post, suggests otherwise, but I'm sure you know yourself best.


No I don't, as you'd see had you read my initial responses to this thread.

I do not agree with the decision and I do not agree that burying a pig on a mosque site is okay either. I do not believe that terrorism is okay, whether by white Christians or brown Muslims. I do not believe that painting swastikas on temples is okay (although that was a Hindu temple and the swastika is not offensive to them, it was the intent that I disagree with). I do not agree with painting all Islam with the same brush or of doing the same with Christians, white people, men, women or whatever.

Nor do I believe in any sort of greater deity, but I do not go about killing people (of any colour faith or ethnic group) to prove how much I disagree with their point of view.

Must be nice to be that smug?
 

Sadurian

LE
Book Reviewer
He must have been using the three briancells given. Let's face it, the donor could hardly spare them but they are unlikely to be fully functional.
 

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