Bring back the VE

Should the VE trade be brought back?

  • Yes

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • No

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    0
#41
Rockstar said:
This isn't what techs are for, ?
Agree your more beneficial makin the brews :wink: and staying in a nice warm fitter truck.

Only joking and agree that your class 3 should be shadowing you and learning his trade but just like VM class 3's we cannot hold their hands and educate them any more because of overstretch. Ive got some ex VE Cpl's at the moment who have retraded as VM's but unfortunately a bit of a fish out of water. Great lads, but steer towards the electrics side jobs more which they know inside out rather than VMing. Why did powers above break things that worked well as usual.
 
#42
Surely the whole point about VEs was that they were specialists at what they did. I don't doubt that a lot of VMs are quite capable of doing basic electrics but are they not busy enough as it is. Similarly techs could probably do most of the electrical work but while they're doing that who nis doing their work. Where VEs have been taken off establishment has the VM or Tech strength been increased to compensate or is it simply a case of reducing the establishment to make up for manpower shortages. In civvy street VEs are specialists as are VMs it's simply not feasible to unite trades simply to hide poor recruitment/retention numbers.
 
#43
Funny how the majority of ex VEs I meet are doing all the VE work, it's the same old tamperers in their ivory towers saying "This seems to work lets ferk with it". Never mind give it 2 years or so and they will be back under a different name. ???? LEANTRICIANS??? :? :? :?
 
#44
They'll be back, mark my words.

It's not so much difficulty working on vehicle electrics its the experience. Reading the cct diagrams is easy, but you look like a cnut when you don't even know where "said" box is on the wagon.

So even a 2 minute job ends up taking ages. I must say though, the vm's that are willing to get involved in the electrics are quite good. Maybe in a couple of years when these boys get more experience there will be no need for ve's at all.
 
#45
Its the old catch 22 situation specialists will never be busy enough to justify their existance, until the $hit hits the fan, and even then it will be start stop, Ive worked for a few companies since leaving in the last ten yrs and they do not like using auto electricians they cost tooooo much and they are not on call like now, you need to book them its the only way they pay, The AA (vm's) techs all deal with elec faults, the Rec vehs we used to use had more elec faults on them than mechanical due to the add on rec equip, this was always sorted by a VM at the local wksp that looked after our trucks as they disbanded AA wksps, either Daf, Renault, or now BT wksps, not by auto electricians, now i work as tech coordinator for RYDER and all work is done by the attending "Fitter" Tech (VM) they are all vms with elec trg whether they be Ryder Fitter, DAF, Merc, Iveco MAN you name it and they will fault find all faults on commercials from van truck and Trailers, even tail lift/fridge faults to some degree that is where the specialists come in fridge engineers, tail lifts, hyd hoses (pirtek), I Believe your main problem is probably lack of good tech equipt and skill limits due to time constraints and budget, most vms A or B are worth their weight in gold, I remember in the 70's / early 80's they did away with the C mech now he was a Bad boy, them fellas were good, so were the RE plant mechs they were clued up hyds and electrics too,
There have been times when the Boss would say i wouldnt trust matey to plug a kettle in never mind play with electricity, only lack of trg experience wasnt his fault bl00dy good Vm,
 
#46
smeagle said:
Class 3 techs should have the theory knowledge to deal with vehicle electrics, the problem is that they dont even see anything they will work on until they get to thier units. Perhaps some practical electrical work could be included in tech phase 2 training.
I agree wholeheartedly with that comment, i served as a cl1 tech in a light-gun battery and once our VE left a lot of expertise left with him.

The problem for us Techs is that whilewe have the theory knowledge base, we haven't done the same equipment courses that the VE's did, DROPS for example so we end up spending half a day trying to find something that a VE could find in 10 minutes!! :roll:

I think we should be trained on all the vehicles we are expected to work on, it will make repair work far quicker in the long run.
 
#47
I am constantly being told by my section stripy that my primary(?!) role in the fitter section is VE jobs. This really winds me up. I have no problem lending a hand with vehicle electrics but as far as I am concerned, if I see a tech job on the 1084, that takes priority for me. Having researched further, all VE work officially is to be carried out by VMs. The stripy is an A mech and says himself he dislikes VE work. In my eyes, tough sh!t. I know I sound like I'm whinging, but this is causing friction within the section. If I am told to do VE work, I will do it. I am learning a lot as I go along, but am taking a lot of flak for spending too long on jobs. "this isn't my trade / I'm not trained" doesn't seem to help matters either!
 
#48
I'm working with the TA at present and they still employ and actively recruit VEs and when we go out to regular units they are snapped up and massively appreciated
 
#49
It was a sad day to see the VE trade disappear, It seems that Techs nowadays seem to fail in their own trade, and it sure is a crime to ask them to then stand in for, or act as VEs. For all those of you that manage it, Well done! REME is better for it. For the whinging Techs who constantly find excuses for their own shortfalls...hand in your bedding??

Definately a deeper problem, some VMs are not up to the VE post, and are already too busy with the other million jobs on our ageing fleet!
 
#50
Shows how long I have been out of the loop, didn't even know that VE had ceased to be :oops:

As an ex Class 1 VE, I wouldn't have trusted the VM's in the LAD's or FRT's to have put a plug on, let alone fault find on a vehicle. VE was a specialist trade, and still should be in my opinion. leave the VM's to playing with the mechanical side of things, that is what they are there for, and get VE's to play with the wiring.

In my last unit, where I was the corporal, we had 3 VE's and all were kept busy (well, the lance jack and the cfn were, I had tea to drink, caravans to rewire, stereos & alarms to fit :eek: ), the VM's would not have been able to cope with the additional workload of the electrics as well.

Never had a problem as far as promotions were concerned, neither did any of the VE's I knew.

Have to admit though, got as far away from vehicles as I could as soon as I got out.......
 
#51
Every VE i've seen thats retraded is back being a sparky as their primary job so what was the point in getting rid of them in the first place. You can't teach all that experience lost to the VM's overnight. So in ten years time when its gone completely the corps will probably bring them back after they realise the mistake they made. i know by this stage the VM's will have learned the skills but should we really have to go down this line considering the equipment is getting more technical.
 
#52
Bring back the VE
My ARSSE what can a VE do that a decent VM can't.

Good bye to the winging trade who did fcuk all but change bulbs, certify alternators and btys U/S, having never commanded a section of more than 1, never achieving any man management experience and expect to get the same pay as a VM.

Please tell me what more responsibility a Class 1 VE has over a VM.

Anybody care to disagree?
 
#53
paul2005 said:
Bring back the VE
My ARSSE what can a VE do that a decent VM can't.

Good bye to the winging trade who did fcuk all but change bulbs, certify alternators and btys U/S, having never commanded a section of more than 1, never achieving any man management experience and expect to get the same pay as a VM.

Please tell me what more responsibility a Class 1 VE has over a VM.

Anybody care to disagree?
Some of the VE's Ive met are cracking at making brews, even better than T_M and his RS crowd, im led to believe :D Who else would they bring us VM's a brew when were on task if we didnt have them around.
 
#54
paul2005 said:
Bring back the VE
My ARSSE what can a VE do that a decent VM can't.

Good bye to the winging trade who did fcuk all but change bulbs, certify alternators and btys U/S, having never commanded a section of more than 1, never achieving any man management experience and expect to get the same pay as a VM.

Please tell me what more responsibility a Class 1 VE has over a VM.

Anybody care to disagree?
Yeah, I disagree

Oh how I wish I was a FITTER (sorry VM). You get the job card, try and read it, unbolt one bit and stick a new one on........lots of technical ability there. Used to be great fun watching the VM's trying to work out a simple wiring fault on a 432 or a CVR(T)........oh what's the matter, the cables are all the same colour?

Change bulbs? sorry, wasn't a gardener. Might have changed a few lamps though.

Did you read my previous post about a section more than 1?

Man management? Sounds like you have it in spades doesn't it?

As for getting the same pay as a VM, I agree there. VE deserved far more.
 
#55
Sorry mate, as a VM I have worked in many places with no VE cover what so ever and we allways managed to stay head above water, most of the same places had no welder either and we didnt miss him too much either, ........................ A GOOD VM CAN DO WHAT YOU DO !!!!!It just takes a little aplication , a wiring diagram is a wiring diagram , get on with it!!
Funnliy enough though I belive the trade VE should stay, it gives the VM roll time to do what they are paid for , but this does not detract from the point that VM'S need to be able to do LECTRICS because it is afterall an integral part of the job?
 
#56
VE's should be kept - no question about it.
Having said that though too many VM's are scared of electrics and look for the easy way out.
A good VM can (slowly) do most of the jobs that a VE does, but some of the more complicated kit can turn into massive dramas.
Maybe just have them at 2nd Line available on IST's?
 
#57
smeagle said:
Class 3 techs should have the theory knowledge to deal with vehicle electrics, the problem is that they dont even see anything they will work on until they get to thier units. Perhaps some practical electrical work could be included in tech phase 2 training.
Not true. Every single technician leaving SEAE will have carried out an equipment course based on their next employment. In fact their postings are now determined by which courses are coming up and not just the individuals want.
They also carry out two practical phases before their trade course that is almost entirely electrical based. These are on a purpose built water based trainer and the CR2 FEL hull electric's simulator.
 
#58
Realrockstar said:
It was a sad day to see the VE trade disappear, It seems that Techs nowadays seem to fail in their own trade, and it sure is a crime to ask them to then stand in for, or act as VEs. For all those of you that manage it, Well done! REME is better for it. For the whinging Techs who constantly find excuses for their own shortfalls...hand in your bedding??

Definately a deeper problem, some VMs are not up to the VE post, and are already too busy with the other million jobs on our ageing fleet!
Im guessingfrom your username that you have just opened an accout to goad rockstar? If so its a little sad because this thread and the one on 3Bn ECI have been quite interesting, good debate and mature subject, please don't drag it back down.
If Im wrong then can you quantify your comments? As someone who delivers training to technician's then I'd like to know how they fail in their own trade? Perhaps as a school something is being done wrong.
I don't think the tech's are whingeing on this. When the decision was made we had plenty of class 1 VM's picking up "tech pay" because they were able to carry out electrical repairs on equipments. Unfortunately the decision has bit those who have shirked that job as we now cannot rely on the VE to get us all out of the poo. We are just going to have to work together, perhaps a concept that is alien to some, to ensure our customers get the best possible service.
 
#59
I'm a TA VE1 and have been since 1992, I obviously think they sould bring the VE trade back in the Regs. Its no disrespect to VM's but many are intimidated by sparky stuff and I can under stand that. heads wired up differently?

Seam to remember that this isn't the first time they've got rid of the VE trade, sure given time they'll see the error and like buses if u wait long enough another will turn up.

As new equipment enters service more and more of it is managed/ controlled by electronics, this deserves a dedicated trade to look after it and if not VE's then lots more Techs? by the way I asssune that Tech pay would be far higher than VE's?
 
#60
The problem at the minute is not that we need VE's back, it is that we need to forget that they exsisted and get on with it.
As an ECE, I have always been expected to do vehicle electrics, and have been happy to do it. The other tech trades may have more of an issue with it, but once the whole Tech Elec thing takes off this will cease to be an issue. (Telling an ex Tels or Inst to find a neg earth fault will just get a blank look).
Teach VM's up the way, and tech's down the way and between us we can sort anything.
 

Similar threads

Latest Threads

Top