Bring Back National Service

#2
Outstanding said:
See the Scum has started this blog:

http://www.thesun.co.uk/discussions/posts/list/21719.page

The very worst thing that could happen to our forces right now would be having this burden imposed on them.
A chap who used to live round the corner from me,whom had a fairly successful wartime career,rising to Lt.Col, left the Army because of National Service, stating he felt that a lot of fairly unwilling volunteers would do the armed forces no good at all.
 
#3
Having served with the last few National Servicemen I would disagree with your statement that they would be a burden, It was mainly NS who fought the Korean War, The Malayan Emergency and the Suez crisis. I would say though that National Service should not be seen as a panacea for society's ills. Oddly enough if you ever needed a loan it was almost always a NS who could provide it.
 
#4
Here's something I posted the other day here. I wanted people's thoughts on the matter, but it killed the thread. This made me quite tearful, so I've manned up a bit and am ready to try it again:

Bert_Preast said:
DAKT said:
Bert_Preast said:
DAKT said:
In-Limbo said:
Too early in the day to form the Penal Battalions...


nice thought mate......

wouldn't work 50 years ago yes....now they would cry human rights etc etc...
please get out of you maggots... please do some drill ...please pick up the log ...the list goes on

and they would nick all their mates kit...na no thanx
Easy answer - make them volunteer.
Can't take a joke...
mmmmmmm im sure there would be a human rights issue with voluteering you know they would wangle out of it...
Teach them a trade. They should be used in disaster areas rather than war zones, on rebuilding projects where they can do something useful. Maybe even once they see the sh:t some people have to live with they'd appreciate their own lot wasn't so bad after all. Officers and SNCOs should be regulars, and for them it should be a good career posting - if you can manage that lot you can manage anyone.

Pay them the same as regulars. Just that they only get to spend 20% of their pay - the rest is saved up until they've done their time, then spent for them by the probation service on accomodation, transport, tools and up front advertising. Basically everything they need to use their new trade to set up a business or be employed by one. They won't need the other 80% of their pay anyway as they'll be doing their time in places where pubs aren't too common.

Their alternative is to do their time in jail and come out with nothing. Enough cause to volunteer and want to do the job rather than get sent back inside, I'd say. Reckon from current numbers the problem would be getting enough regulars to train and staff them rather than getting enough prisoners to volunteer.
Any thoughts?
 
#5
craftsmanx said:
Having served with the last few National Servicemen I would disagree with your statement that they would be a burden, It was mainly NS who fought the Korean War, The Malayan Emergency and the Suez crisis. I would say though that National Service should not be seen as a panacea for society's ills. Oddly enough if you ever needed a loan it was almost always a NS who could provide it.
I agree with you craftsmanx, i have met a few old boys over the years who done more than there bit during national service.
Only thing worrys me, is they didnt have a generation of lazy bone idol disco-biscuit popping chavs then to contend with. Imagine the human excrement we would have joinging up through NS. We think CDT is a problem now, check it out if we had NS, more being discharged than recruited.
If this Govt would treat us the way any proffesional army should be, maybe retention would not be such a problem and NS wouldnt be an issue.
 
#6
I love all that "teach them a trade" shiite. I have mates leaving now after 22 years who strill don't have a trade. You try typing in "Anti-Tank" or "81mm Mortar" into the jobseekers database and there's not an awful lot of demand out there. They'll end up like the geordie bloke "Michael" in Alan Partridge.
 
#7
PoisonDwarf said:
I love all that "teach them a trade" shiite. I have mates leaving now after 22 years who strill don't have a trade. You try typing in "Anti-Tank" or "81mm Mortar" into the jobseekers database and there's not an awful lot of demand out there. They'll end up like the geordie bloke "Michael" in Alan Partridge.
I fully agree. I myself am the bo||ocks with an 84 or a GPMG, and my discharge papers suggest I could be gainfully employed as a car park attendent or car washer.

But read what I wrote again - I'm not suggesting the Queen's Own Toerag Rifles. They should be Pioneer/Engineer type dudes.
 
#8
36thulster said:
craftsmanx said:
Having served with the last few National Servicemen I would disagree with your statement that they would be a burden, It was mainly NS who fought the Korean War, The Malayan Emergency and the Suez crisis. I would say though that National Service should not be seen as a panacea for society's ills. Oddly enough if you ever needed a loan it was almost always a NS who could provide it.
I agree with you craftsmanx, i have met a few old boys over the years who done more than there bit during national service.
Only thing worrys me, is they didnt have a generation of lazy bone idol disco-biscuit popping chavs then to contend with. Imagine the human excrement we would have joinging up through NS. We think CDT is a problem now, check it out if we had NS, more being discharged than recruited.
If this Govt would treat us the way any proffesional army should be, maybe retention would not be such a problem and NS wouldnt be an issue.
I said something similar to this to a packed audience of local mayors and councillors when asked the same question at an Army Recruiting event a few years back. Obviously a bit more PC on the day but my sentiments are NS in the 40-60s had respectful citizens. Why should we take the scum of the day off the streets to ease the local councils of todays society then get slated for being an ill disciplined Army in now a days society.
 
Z

Zarathustra

Guest
#9
Would anyone here really fancy being in Afghan or Iraq with some chav who's been forced to join and doesn't want to be there watching your back when it matters the most?
 
#10
I would agree with a disciplined disaster relief force. With droughts and floods getting worryingly commonplace I would suggest that would be a better route to getting chavs more focussed in life.
 
#11
It could not be done. The armed forces no longer have the people or assets to facilitate national service. It would take decades of serious investment in the services infrastructure to get us up to a level where we would be able to train, lead, manage, equip and accommodate the national servicemen. I cannot see any government making such a massive financial commitment, especially this one.
 
#13
Speedy said:
I would agree with a disciplined disaster relief force. With droughts and floods getting worryingly commonplace I would suggest that would be a better route to getting chavs more focussed in life.
You've got it. It's not so much about getting chavs into the army as getting the army to sort out the couple of thousand chavs who are currently wasting everyone's time and taxes, but who if introduced to the concept of a damn good beasting could do sterling work on our country's behalf.

The army gets to take the credit, and maybe - just maybe - the government could reflect the weight taken off the prison/police/criminal victims budget by passing it on to us.
 
#14
This idea is absolutely silly. Every regular soldier, sailor and airman (and probably the reserves too) would be engaged in training new recruits. There would be no one to go on operations. And with the amount of money it would take to house, feed, clothe, equip and pay these national servicemen (women too?) there wouldn't be much left in the defence budget for much else. Of course you could only conscript a certain number each year. But then whom? A ballot system like those used in other countries at certain times?

Anyway this is pointless because it's not going to happen. Most large European countries (France, Italy, Spain, Belgium, Netherlands) stopped conscription in the last ten years, and many of them had had it since the 19th century. The countries that do have conscription (the Scandinavian countries and Germany, Poland, a few others) are generally stuck with large amounts of non-deployable soldiers in their armies, because most governments are not prepared to send conscripts overseas in today's era of expeditionary warfare.

There has been vague talk of bringing back "selective service" in the US, but again, it just isn't going to happen.
 
#15
It wouldn't work, in the 40,s 50,s 60,s it did work. different morals upbringing,etc, etc
nowadays yob would cry human rights you couldn't shout at them or discipline them we called it character building they call it bullying..they would inform mother and she in turn would approach MP...

And as someone earlier in this thread stated ," would you trust some of the yobs in hoodies watching your back on a miision.. I dont think so..
 
#16
Due to the Human Rights Act, we can't even force Iraqi, Somali and Afghan citizens to return to their native countries. How on earth are we supposed to get unwilling conscripts to go there?
 
#17
Ancient_Mariner said:
Due to the Human Rights Act, we can't even force Iraqi, Somali and Afghan citizens to return to their native countries. How on earth are we supposed to get unwilling conscripts to go there?
Dear old Ancient Mariner,

I appear to be on a 'Black List' - the last time I posted (the thread) was 'disappeared'.

Now, I may be fractionally to the right of Margaret Thatcher, fractionally that is, but I don't expect to be 'booted' from this site!

If I am not acceptable for my political slant, then I shall become an implacable enemy - and I shall discover how to destroy it.
 
#18
In the 50s and early 60s, the National Service guys were often grateful to get out of overcrowded houses and off the dole line. The pay was rubbish but at least they got 3 square, a non-sharing bed and boots with soles on them. In the 50s servicemen got better food as rationing was still in force for many of the great unwashed.
Nowadays, we couldn't pay them what they get on benefits and they'd be missing their Playstations and McDonalds Happy Meals.
The kids in those days also had a lot more respect for authority than they have now. Witness the crap pre-teens give the police when they're told off.
 
#19
exbleep said:
In the 50s and early 60s, the National Service guys were often grateful to get out of overcrowded houses and off the dole line. The pay was rubbish but at least they got 3 square, a non-sharing bed and boots with soles on them. In the 50s servicemen got better food as rationing was still in force for many of the great unwashed.
Nowadays, we couldn't pay them what they get on benefits and they'd be missing their Playstations and McDonalds Happy Meals.
The kids in those days also had a lot more respect for authority than they have now. Witness the crap pre-teens give the police when they're told off.
sir I agree with you...hopefully the nearest some of todays muppets will get to combat is through their playstation and wiis...
 
#20
I know it was pump TV, but one only needs to look at the change in the recruits on "Bad Lads Army" to see the difference it makes.

Why not use it as a system for angry old RSM's and other DS who don't want to leave jusst yet to extend their service. It means we don't lose years of experience these old monsters have?


And surely the reduction in costs for the police could be funnelled into the Defence Budget?

P
 

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