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Brief Thoughts On Maps

Zhopa

War Hero
in addition to the pipelines discussed elsewhere, you've also got lat-long grid (running top left to bottom right) and a Soviet grid system (purple, straight top to bottom) to contend with.

Map edge showing different grid systems as promised. Also showing Exeter, discussed upstream.

IMG_3723.jpg


(Edited to add: also showing Torquay and Torbay, but pronounced Torkee and Torbee because surely English spelling cannot be so ridiculous as to say the -ay ending two totally different ways for what is basically the same place.)
 

Brotherton Lad

LE
Kit Reviewer
On my first few trips into Sovland as a young innocent thing I was bewildered by the stern instructions not to even look as though you were taking photographs in the vicinity of bridges, railway stations, river ports etc. I thought it was just more daft Russian paranoia because what use would photos like that be to anybody. Enlightenment came much later.

Yep. You'd be amazed how much Int can be extracted just from taking a piccie of the lettering on a tyre or stereo photography of tank tracks in mud.
 

Brotherton Lad

LE
Kit Reviewer
The diameter of trees relates to their ability to stop a tank. The distance between trees is normally also correlated to their size. IIRC there’s a happy medium where the trees are obstacles and are too close together to allow easy manoeuvre between. I think we had a page on this as a ‘ready reckoner’ in the Royal Engineers Pocket Book (REPB).

Edited for spelling


Oh and our cartographer back in West Berlin was a Sapper SSgt.

The first one got commissioned and became a Lt Col educator. Sadly he died a year or two ago and we got to his cremation. JD if you knew him.

The Mission was based at the top of the rotunda in the 1936 Olympic Games HQ where the boxing was held.

After the 4th level of gates and checks was a 50thou map pasted on the curved wall. All of the DDR, manually updated and annotated and linked to a shedful of target files and a database on a computer (the computer filled a room and sat in a Faraday cage - probably less powerful than a smartphone today but cutting edge at the time).
 
On my first few trips into Sovland as a young innocent thing I was bewildered by the stern instructions not to even look as though you were taking photographs in the vicinity of bridges, railway stations, river ports etc. I thought it was just more daft Russian paranoia because what use would photos like that be to anybody. Enlightenment came much later.

When I first got to Bosnia I was based near Tuzla. I noticed that on all the approaches to infrastructure (like the power station, the chlorine factory and the air base) there were road signs saying ‘no photographs’.
 
The Red Atlas has its own web site: The Red Atlas: How the Soviet Union Secretly Mapped the World | The Red Atlas: How the Soviet Union Secretly Mapped the World

Viewable maps of many of Britain's cities. Terrain maps etc. Reasonable price to buy at about £9 each.

Another monster useful waste of time.

The training maps are useful as they have readable legends on the right hand side.

The first one I looked at answered one question. The airfield symbol in the map of Pembroke Dock was in the river and didn't look like the normal airfield symbol. It does show up as aerodrome/airfield on the training maps (even I can make out that A3po is aero) so the symbol with a number next to it must be for seaplanes/depth.
 
The Red Atlas has its own web site: The Red Atlas: How the Soviet Union Secretly Mapped the World | The Red Atlas: How the Soviet Union Secretly Mapped the World

Viewable maps of many of Britain's cities. Terrain maps etc. Reasonable price to buy at about £9 each.

Another monster useful waste of time.

The training maps are useful as they have readable legends on the right hand side.

The first one I looked at answered one question. The airfield symbol in the map of Pembroke Dock was in the river and didn't look like the normal airfield symbol. It does show up as aerodrome/airfield on the training maps (even I can make out that A3po is aero) so the symbol with a number next to it must be for seaplanes/depth.
Pembroke Dock was a seaplane port: Sunderlands and Catalinas were based there.
 
The Red Atlas has its own web site: The Red Atlas: How the Soviet Union Secretly Mapped the World | The Red Atlas: How the Soviet Union Secretly Mapped the World

Viewable maps of many of Britain's cities. Terrain maps etc. Reasonable price to buy at about £9 each.

Another monster useful waste of time.

The training maps are useful as they have readable legends on the right hand side.

The first one I looked at answered one question. The airfield symbol in the map of Pembroke Dock was in the river and didn't look like the normal airfield symbol. It does show up as aerodrome/airfield on the training maps (even I can make out that A3po is aero) so the symbol with a number next to it must be for seaplanes/depth.

A year or so ago we used digitised versions of the Sov maps of NE Nigeria to do an EOD survey. A mapping geek overlaid a UTM grid and converted them to 1:100,000 for us. He also used google map overlays to add place names in latinic characters.

1:125,000 is a bit complicated when you’re teaching map reading to people who consider a ruler a bit of specialised technical equipment.

No word of a lie there, I had to fail two people on a course of 16 for their inability to measure scale with a ruler.
 
Pembroke Dock was a seaplane port: Sunderlands and Catalinas were based there.

Not just ships and seaplanes.

The Millenium Falcon was built at Pembroke Dock in one of the old Sunderland hangars. Presumably it took off from one of the slipways.

But that was a long time ago.
 
Thanks Tedsson, we certainly have a lot in common. Just ordered the Soviet maps of my city, ideally to be framed alongside OS maps the same scale. A nice wall-covering in the hallway.
 
Map edge showing different grid systems as promised. Also showing Exeter, discussed upstream.

View attachment 512538

(Edited to add: also showing Torquay and Torbay, but pronounced Torkee and Torbee because surely English spelling cannot be so ridiculous as to say the -ay ending two totally different ways for what is basically the same place.)

That's useful. The 6/150 isn't OS National Grid, and the angle between the red grid and the Lat/Long is too great. So is it an extension of a European or Russian grid?
 
Map edge showing different grid systems as promised. Also showing Exeter, discussed upstream.

View attachment 512538

(Edited to add: also showing Torquay and Torbay, but pronounced Torkee and Torbee because surely English spelling cannot be so ridiculous as to say the -ay ending two totally different ways for what is basically the same place.)
Interestingly, although it shows the railway line that follows the east bank of the river to Exmouth, CTC Lympstone (which has its own station) doesn’t appear to be marked.
 
Interestingly, although it shows the railway line that follows the east bank of the river to Exmouth, CTC Lympstone (which has its own station) doesn’t appear to be marked.

The CTC was opened in 1940. The railway station in 1976.

Looking at the Sov map above all the urban areas are significantly smaller than they are today. They are also smaller than they are on the Bartholemew Half-Inch 1940-1947. (My granny took up with Roy Bartholomew when my grandfather croaked back in the early sixties).

So I guess the Sov map is based on either an old OS map or a German map (which may in turn have been based on an OS map).

What is odd about it is that it doesn't have the Exmouth-Budleigh Salterton railway line on it, which only closed in the 1960s*. The Sov maps usually showed disused railway lines because they either didn't know they were disused or the tracks had a military use.



* Not sure if this was a Beeching cut. I wouldn't be surprised because the sneaky old sod had form for recording line usage to and from tourist resorts in the winter, when it was sod all. rather than the summer when it was busy as.
 

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