Brief Thoughts On Maps

I think there was an element of it having been set up for the camera crew

Would the captain be teaching basic navigation?
Having witnessed the media lovieee/military interlink in action (BBC Fighter Pilot 1981...I think???)

I can in truth say.......






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Are there existing footpaths following those routes?
Almost certainly.

Looking at an OS map circa 1900 there are clearly marked public footpaths surrounding the farm. Probably not all exactly the same as the need for footpaths changes over time (as farms vanish, villages grow, farmers fence them off etc).

4A6AAA83-50DD-44D1-AC69-7692396F189E.jpeg


That’s as close as I can co-locate @labrat ‘s 1789 map. It doesn’t seem to have changed much since 1900 so I doubt if it changed much between 1789-1900.

You can make a legal public footpath across someone’s land by walking the same route for twenty years, preferably with a pram, bike or animal.
 
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Almost certainly.

Looking at an OS map circa 1900 there are clearly marked public footpaths surrounding the farm. Probably not all exactly the same as the need for footpaths changes over time (as farms vanish, villages grow, farmers fence them off etc).

View attachment 445717

That’s as close as I can co-locate @labrat’s 1789 map. It doesn’t seem to have changed much since 1900 so I doubt if it changed much between 1789-1900.

You can make a legal public footpath across someone’s land by walking the same route for twenty years, preferably with a pram, bike or animal.
At our last house, the neighbour wanted to move a footpath.Quite an expensive exercise as I recall.He got it done eventually.
Hopefully Labrat will be able to tell us why he is "claiming" the paths?
 
People can get quite irate about moving public footpaths. Quite rightly in some instances but not in others. To their credit the government spent £15million on trying to sort out the PF system in England and Wales but sort of gave up because it was a lot more difficult than they thought.

Mostly I am on the side of the ramblers, hikers, cyclists, dog walkers and conservationists. But not always. Sometimes it makes common sense to change them.

There is a food factory a few miles away. There is a PF running straight through the factory, shown in red below.
FC6EA61A-87FB-4826-B367-5CA439F7727E.jpeg


The company wanted to move a bit of it to the blue track. This is because the red track is shared with cars and articulated trucks/tankers and is potentially dangerous. They have had to go through the whole planning/public consultation process.

Some spods complained that it was a violation of the PF, despite the company offering to provide a proper decent safe footpath around the shared road. Maybe walking another six feet was a problem for them. Twats.
 
Are there existing footpaths following those routes?
no, there aren’t, as it’s crown land, plus under common land law it carries open access rights on foot & horse - hence the claim I’ve just submitted for restricted byway & bridleway* along these marked routes in order to allow bikes & carriage drivers (not motor vehicles)

I had to get this map copied direct from parliamentary archives as part of the claim, so it’s of the highest possible provenance and we can argue the strength of its evidentiary value based on the fact it was prepared by HM commissioner for land revenue
Screenshot 2020-01-25 at 12.35.49.png


* this is a complex area, the intersection linear rights of way and common-land law can be confusing but the caselaw in eyre vs new forest highways board confirms that tracks which continue over commons with a destination are highways.
 
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no, there aren’t, as it’s crown land, plus under common land law it carries open access rights on foot & horse - hence the claim I’ve just submitted for restricted byway & bridleway* along these marked routes in order to allow bikes & carriage drivers (not motor vehicles)

I had to get this map copied direct from parliamentary archives as part of the claim, so it’s of the highest possible provenance and we can argue the strength of its evidentiary value based on the fact it was prepared by HM commissioner for land revenueView attachment 445764

* this is a complex area, the intersection linear rights of way and common-land law can be confusing but the caselaw in eyre vs new forest highways board confirms that tracks which continue over commons with a destination are highways.
Number of years ago I became involved in something similar where I live .... IIRC there are restrictions on the nature of the surface finish e.g. cannot be tarmac / concrete / paved to ensure horse traffic can move safely and discourage road vehicles .
 
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TamH70

MIA
I think there was an element of it having been set up for the camera crew on the grounds of it making good TV.

“Ooh Tristan, lets get the pirate captain to show his dashing young blades how to use a 250 year old instrument amongst all this high tech gadgetry and gizmos”.

Would the captain be teaching basic navigation?
Historically speaking, yes. Though not all captains did it, at least not in the Navy. As far as I am aware, a lot of Midshipmen, prior to their exams for Lieutenancy, got cram courses from their captains so that they didn't embarrass themselves, their captain, or, most importantly, their ship. It is also a good way for the captain to show his skills off to his lower-ranked officers.
 
I think there was an element of it having been set up for the camera crew on the grounds of it making good TV.

“Ooh Tristan, lets get the pirate captain to show his dashing young blades how to use a 250 year old instrument amongst all this high tech gadgetry and gizmos”.

Would the captain be teaching basic navigation?
I have always been a big fan of belt and braces. Modern tech is great but it has a tendency to go tits up. I imagine this would be worse in a shooting war with jamming, GPS degradation/removal etc.

It’s nice to have a fallback technology when the SHTF.

I watched a programme on the new QEII the other day and Cap’n Kyd was teaching his new occifers how to use sextants, astronavigation etc, effectively the “maps” of the seas.

If all else fails then the most electronically sophisticated warship in the world will be navigated in the same way the Cap’n’s predecessor navigated HMS Victory. (I know he has left the ship).

Historically speaking, yes. Though not all captains did it, at least not in the Navy. As far as I am aware, a lot of Midshipmen, prior to their exams for Lieutenancy, got cram courses from their captains so that they didn't embarrass themselves, their captain, or, most importantly, their ship. It is also a good way for the captain to show his skills off to his lower-ranked officers.
This broadly rings true. My understanding is that the nav training during RN initial officer training is all about the "little black boxes" (GPS, inertial guidance, etc.) and the electronic chart table.

Now being the geek that I am, I dabble in naked-eye astronomy. I'm too cheap to shell out for a big telescope and figuring out Right-ascension hour-angle is still a bit beyond me! But I do know that in autumn Orion is just rising (sideways on) slightly north of S.E. early in the night, and upright in the south around midnight.

About 12-14 years ago I went to a dinner hosted at an isolated location in the New Forest. I did not yet have sat nav on my car, so I'd done the old school thing of looking at the road atlas and trying to commit the key turnings to memory before setting off into the autumn dusk to get there.

So, I'm about halfway between leaving the major roads and arriving, and I am therefore on the wiggly verge-less roads that criss-cross the New Forest heath. My memory is just fading ("now is this third exit on second roundabout or second exit on third roundabout that I need? ") and then as I approach said roundabout some arrse behind me took umbrage as I slowed down to read the road signs, gives me his main beam headlights, blares his horn and screeches past as he undertakes me. My night adapted vision was all whited out and I could do nothing but circle the roundabout a couple of times until the spots in my eyes faded enough to see the signage again.

However after two or three circuits, I'm getting dizzy, I've mazed myself, and I'm worried I'll have to risk going 4-5 miles in the wrong direction to reorientate myself at the next village.

Then I see Orion's Belt just clearing the horizon and all is saved! For both the roundabouts I was going to go over, I remembered from the map that I needed the S.Easterly exit. So I took the exit and made it to my venue an uneventful 10 miles later.

What's this got to do with RN junior officers?, you might ask.

Well it turned out that my immediate neighbour at this dinner was a female RN two-ringer who was working on her Watch Standing ticket while serving on a P2000/Archer class. Knowing only a little about the Andrew, I knew enough to know that this was a career milestone for surface warfare seaman officers. Thinking she might have some professional interest in celestial navigation, I told her a MUCH briefer version of the above story.

Now this is where it gets weird.
She was totally incredulous that someone could tell direction from the stars (or at least a southerly one on the horizon, rather than subtending down from Polaris at the Zenith), much less doing it by naked-eye while driving a car. A rude poopoo-ing as General Melchet would say!
She went on at some length to say how it was all about the "little black boxes", even at watchstanders cert level, that the half an afternoon they'd discussed sextants and celestial nav, at Dartmouth, they'd yammered on about how you need three books of almanacs and 20 min of calculations to get a fix, making it useless in a modern navy!

When the next course was served I turned my attention to my neighbour on the other side, who easier on the eye and single. But a few days later I did find myself pondering whether this lady lieutenant RN I'd spoken to during the starter was a bit dense and there to tick a diversity box, or whether seamanship training has changed so much. In the public sphere, the four year USN course at Annapolis has either dropped or severely reduced star nav, but the US Coast Guard academy still keeps up the whole sextant / chronometer / almanac rigmarole.

It seems this chap on the aircraft carrier has a fine eye for history, or has keen desire to make his subordinates familiar with a reversionary method!

But alas not a mainstream skill anymore, apparently.
 
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Back in August I was trying to find a farmhouse near Collumpton in Devon.

The satnav was about as much use as a chocolate teapot.

“Give them a call and put it on speaker” says I.

Missus does so.

“As you come out of town you go down a single track lane with hedges either side. Then you come to some trees. Just past them there is a pile of black plastic bales. Turn right up a driveway just past them”. Comes the reply.

“Yeah, thanks for that. It’s been a great help. Really narrowed it down in rural Devon”.
 
Same as "500 yards before the Red Lion, turn (which way?) at the bus stop, etc, etc". I've dealt with plenty of professionals who cannot encompass a stranger's perspective. I'd rather use Polaris .....
 

OneTenner

Old-Salt
Almost certainly.

Looking at an OS map circa 1900 there are clearly marked public footpaths surrounding the farm. Probably not all exactly the same as the need for footpaths changes over time (as farms vanish, villages grow, farmers fence them off etc).

View attachment 445717

That’s as close as I can co-locate @labrat ‘s 1789 map. It doesn’t seem to have changed much since 1900 so I doubt if it changed much between 1789-1900.

You can make a legal public footpath across someone’s land by walking the same route for twenty years, preferably with a pram, bike or animal.
@Tedsson What software are you using there? would be a great help (I think) in matching up some Verdun aerial photos I have copies of
 
You need to use the Georeferencer GDAL plug in to align the photos. What are you intending to be aligning them against?
 

OneTenner

Old-Salt
Thanks for your reply - i'm trying / been trying to georeference several aerial photo's of Verdun from the Great War, as they're not already referenced, the side-by-side viewer wouldn't really help - sorry to interrupt your intake ;-)
 

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