Brexit - The Final

The aggressive attitude of many brexitears here is the obvious link between them and extremist right wing groups. Luckily they cannot resort to violence because the majority of them are geriatric cases, morbidly obese, arthritic, senile, short of breath and unable to punch their way out of a wet paper bag without having a coronary failure. They also have no sense of humour...just mention the word revoke and they go off on one! :razz:
This from the guy that wanted to meet up and fight the arrse brexiteers, remember that, Knuckles?
 
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I was in the park with my dog and I said to this bloke,
"Which way did you vote?"
I voted to leave, " he replied. With that my dog bit him. I carried on and I saw a woman,
"Which way did you vote? " I asked.
"I voted to leave, " she said. My dog bit her as well.
As I carried on I met another man,
Which way did you vote?" I asked.
"I voted to remain, " he said. With that my dog bit him.
My dog doesn't give a f**k about politics.

:grin:
 
Joining the EU and then allowing QMV were national scandals as they flew in the face of a millennia of foreign policy designed to maintain a balance of power in Europe. Now we find ourselves with a continent united for now in a union which does have pretensions which make it an existential threat and we are saddled with a government floundering in appeasement and weakness.
A fish rots from the head. Had the Tories elected a leader who believed in Brexit, (like BoJo before Gove knifed him in the back), negotiations with Europe would have been more robust and the Tories might have had a WA they could unite around.

The Tories are also lacking anyone with the balls to seize the leadership. Where is the potential leader willing to step forward and say "May is been an abject failure and should resign as leader - I put myself forward for the position"? Give the increasing discontent within the Conservative party, that might be enough to push May over the edge. And even if it doesn't, it would be a clear statement that at least one person was prepared to lead from the front.

The situation is akin to just before when Maggie took over from Heath and no-one appeared willing to challenge him for the leadership.

1975 Conservative Party (UK) leadership election - Wikipedia
Following the review, Heath called a leadership election for 4 February 1975, in order to assert his authority as leader of the party. Many expected the contest to be a walkover, believing there was no clear alternative to Heath after Keith Joseph had ruled himself out following controversial remarks calling on poor people to have fewer children and William Whitelaw had pledged loyalty to Heath. Many other shadow cabinet members pledged their support for Heath including Jim Prior, Peter Carrington, Leader in the House of Lords, and Robert Carr, Shadow Chancellor.

However Margaret Thatcher opted to stand, with Airey Neave as her campaign manager, as did backbencher Hugh Fraser. Even then many believed that Heath would win easily. Thatcher's support was seen as minimal, with all the Conservative daily newspapers backing Heath (although the weekly The Spectator backed Thatcher). As the election went on it became clear that the race was going to be much closer, as Thatcher became the clear candidate to be supported by discontented backbenchers.
Maggie became leader because she had belief in herself and her abilities - the current crop of leadership candidates seem to lack testicular fortitude.

Wordsmith
 
And while it is the Commissions fault for wanting it..... you can’t blame the EU for it coming to fruition.... Westminster voted to allow it
Very true, the problem as I have tried to maintain is with the commons and civil service who signed off on all this and then brushed off concerns, because insufficient people understood what was happening... We are still making the same mistakes as we did back then, by not putting our own house in order first....
 
A fish rots from the head. Had the Tories elected a leader who believed in Brexit, (like BoJo before Gove knifed him in the back), negotiations with Europe would have been more robust and the Tories might have had a WA they could unite around.

The Tories are also lacking anyone with the balls to seize the leadership. Where is the potential leader willing to step forward and say "May is been an abject failure and should resign as leader - I put myself forward for the position"? Give the increasing discontent within the Conservative party, that might be enough to push May over the edge. And even if it doesn't, it would be a clear statement that at least one person was prepared to lead from the front.

The situation is akin to just before when Maggie took over from Heath and no-one appeared willing to challenge him for the leadership.

1975 Conservative Party (UK) leadership election - Wikipedia


Maggie became leader because she had belief in herself and her abilities - the current crop of leadership candidates seem to lack testicular fortitude.

Wordsmith
Tories and Labour are frankenstein parties that are put together with varying parts of different opinion and have a complete lack of a personality or soul.... Labour at least are trying to find a soul and I have respect for them, despite disagreeing with much of what they say about the world and this country.

The best leaders can create a personality and I suspect Bojo and others probably can't do that in the present system. Corbyn had to rip his party apart to achieve some of his goals and the tories have to face facts about the future before its too late for them and the nation at large.
 
A fish rots from the head. Had the Tories elected a leader who believed in Brexit, (like BoJo before Gove knifed him in the back), negotiations with Europe would have been more robust and the Tories might have had a WA they could unite around.

The Tories are also lacking anyone with the balls to seize the leadership. Where is the potential leader willing to step forward and say "May is been an abject failure and should resign as leader - I put myself forward for the position"? Give the increasing discontent within the Conservative party, that might be enough to push May over the edge. And even if it doesn't, it would be a clear statement that at least one person was prepared to lead from the front.

The situation is akin to just before when Maggie took over from Heath and no-one appeared willing to challenge him for the leadership.

1975 Conservative Party (UK) leadership election - Wikipedia


Maggie became leader because she had belief in herself and her abilities - the current crop of leadership candidates seem to lack testicular fortitude.

Wordsmith
1. I'm not sure that BoJo saw anything in the situation in 2016 except the potential for his own advancement. Given his intellect - and his access to media - of he'd been a true believer (like, say, Redmond) we'd have heard a lot more from him earlier on this theme

2. It's clear they think the situation is toxic. Like our discussion on your earlier post, it seems the state of the country is less important to them than both the state of the party and their own personal ambitions.
 
I see our fabled veto was in action today. Extremely dodgy dictat on copyright laws from Brussels..objected to by huge numbers across Europe and by many governments such as Sweden, Holland, Italy, Poland.

Ours was the casting vote, and we gave it to Juncker. Well done PMTM, Britain's 'influence' in Europe once more proved to be nothing more than for sale to save political embarrassment in No 10 for fear of saying 'non'.
And they changed the voting order so some people mistakenly voted for the bill thinking they were voting against it, but it must be an accident the EU would never try and game a vote by deceit now would they?
 
Anyone that says they can accurately forecast the result of Brexit (with so many unknowns involved) is a either fool or a knave.


Wordsmith
So that presumably applies to all those politicians who said it would be all right, they'll let us have access the the market, etc?

The bit I don't get is, given that (a) we were doing all right before and (b) it was impossible to forecast the result, what was so bad that such a leap into the unknown was necessary?

Especially given your - necessarily optimistic- own forecast that we're in for 12-18 months of (minor) turbulence. Given our differing perspectives on the matter you'll forgive me for wondering whether you're on the Panglossian end of the spectrum.
 
Tories and Labour are frankenstein parties that are put together with varying parts of different opinion and have a complete lack of a personality or soul.... Labour at least are trying to find a soul and I have respect for them, despite disagreeing with much of what they say about the world and this country.

The best leaders can create a personality and I suspect Bojo and others probably can't do that in the present system. Corbyn had to rip his party apart to achieve some of his goals and the tories have to face facts about the future before its too late for them and the nation at large.
The Tories and Labour have different problems.

The Tories have an aging membership and they are no longer inspirational or aspirational enough to attract members to replace those that are leaving or dying off. Tat problem might be correctable were they to get better leadership that could articulate policies that are attractive to both the Tory voter base and to swing voters. If the new leader can't do that, the'll be replaced by the Brexit party

The Labour party are steadily being taken over by the hard left who are putting hard left/Marxist ideas in place. If they don't win the 2022 GE, they'll be totally unelectable and replaced by a more moderate centre-left party.

Among other things, Brexit is catalysing a fundamental change in British politics.

Wordsmith
 
I'll leave this for you to try and contemplate.
You got a Richard in a subject we are not talkinh about.
I got a good 'A' but didn't bother with uni.
I got three good A's, again this realy doesn't matter; you either provide a reasoned argument and back it up with some evidence or you're talking bullsh*t.
 
The bit I don't get is, given that (a) we were doing all right before and (b) it was impossible to forecast the result, what was so bad that such a leap into the unknown was necessary?
Jesus H. Christ.

We voted to leave the EU because of concern about current polices and the future direction of the EU.

A leap into the unknown is necessary if the Titanic is clearly headed towards the iceberg.

If the EU is is such fine shape, please explain how they fix the well-known structural flaws in the euro before it crashes in the next recession and throws the EU into a existential crisis.

Wordsmith
 

Joker62

ADC
Book Reviewer
We're not using our veto because we're leaving and don't want to antagonise those who we'll be negotiating a trade deal with Einstein.
You mean going with the EU flow in the vain hope that they'll throw us a couple of breadcrumbs that the Govt will be happy to accept.
 
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