Brexit - The Final

Auld-Yin

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Corbyn is like a stuck record this morning out on the Campaign trail:


'The NHS is not up for sale!
Tell the Big Lie and tell it often.
 
There was no coherent plan for Brexit.
Well really. The point is that Parliament have to decide how to leave, Remain is not an option for what passes as the EU. A coherent plan for Brexit!-when was there anything coherent about anything political? The EU is barely coherent in concept and I've still to be convinced that isn't Just France playing it's own version of Europe takeover. The point isn't about whether we "truly leave." That's a matter for the electorate after we have "Left" if we are persuaded that Parliament has complied with what the box says. For that pillock Campbell to be on GMB this morning and talk about the concept of democracy is highly Laughable. Besides no coherent plan survives contact with the enemy.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
Campbell? Hasn’t the lie master been banished into political oblivion?
 
Pretty sure that both Davis & Johnson resigned over May's Surrender Act.
And it took them two years of knowing the plan, debating the plan, being briefed on the progress of the negotiations, and - in the case of Davis - leading the negotiations.

They only resigned when it became obvious that they hadn't got the votes to get the WA through, at which point Davis was "avoid responsibility by claiming a big girl did it all and ran away", while Johnson was "watch May fail, then make a run for the top job". Hardly the act of a principled politicians.
 
Had these sad Remainers actually backed the result the occupant of No 10 would have been able...
That would be the "sad remainers" of the ERG who prevented the original WA from being voted into law? Remember, it JRM hadn't opposed it, we'd be out of the EU by now.

I like pointing this out, because it causes much furious back-pedalling. Obviously, that WA wasn't Brexit at all, and was righteously prevented by the Forces of Light!...

...while the bravely-renegotiated "sell out the DUP" WA was a real Brexit, brave and true, defeated only by a traitorous few...
 

Auld-Yin

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That would be the "sad remainers" of the ERG who prevented the original WA from being voted into law? Remember, it JRM hadn't opposed it, we'd be out of the EU by now.

I like pointing this out, because it causes much furious back-pedalling. Obviously, that WA wasn't Brexit at all, and was righteously prevented by the Forces of Light!...

...while the bravely-renegotiated "sell out the DUP" WA was a real Brexit, brave and true, defeated only by a traitorous few...
You really are one mixed up kid. You don't really know what you want so you scweem and scweem for Remain so you can stay under your comfort blanket.
 
...so you can stay under your comfort blanket.
I'll quote you, in this thread:

"May's plan - the Withdrawal Agreement - does not really withdraw us from the EU!"

"Now, assuming the statement from Boris quoted by Peston is accurate, then the EU seem to have given some fairly major concessions. Makes one wonder why this was not done two years ago instead of all the trouble."

There is little difference between the two Withdrawal Agreements, other than an injection of sanity over the NI border issue. As for "why not", the answer is "because PMTM needed to keep the DUP happy, if she was to secure a Parliamentary majority".
 

Auld-Yin

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I'll quote you, in this thread:

"May's plan - the Withdrawal Agreement - does not really withdraw us from the EU!"

"Now, assuming the statement from Boris quoted by Peston is accurate, then the EU seem to have given some fairly major concessions. Makes one wonder why this was not done two years ago instead of all the trouble."

There is little difference between the two Withdrawal Agreements, other than an injection of sanity over the NI border issue. As for "why not", the answer is "because PMTM needed to keep the DUP happy, if she was to secure a Parliamentary majority".
You do realise that the WA is just that, a withdrawal document which gets us out of the EU. The Political Declaration is the main and legally binding document. Forbye all that, this is just action to set us up for the next stage of negotiations, but as a country not cow-towing to Brussels.

On top of all this we have a new regime in Brussels - hopefully the same government on this side though.

I also get the feeling that you would be arguing the WA regardless of what it says purely because it gets us out of the EU. Respect the result - my arrse!
 

Brotherton Lad

LE
Kit Reviewer
You do realise that the WA is just that, a withdrawal document which gets us out of the EU. The Political Declaration is the main and legally binding document. Forbye all that, this is just action to set us up for the next stage of negotiations, but as a country not cow-towing to Brussels.

On top of all this we have a new regime in Brussels - hopefully the same government on this side though.

I also get the feeling that you would be arguing the WA regardless of what it says purely because it gets us out of the EU. Respect the result - my arrse!
You've got that arrse about face. The WA is legally binding once passed. The PD is merely a wish-list for the next 5 years (or more) of negotiations and not legally binding.
 

Auld-Yin

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You've got that arrse about face. The WA is legally binding once passed. The PD is merely a wish-list for the next 5 years (or more) of negotiations and not legally binding.
OK, mea culpa and did that one in haste after my afternoon nap :) But even swapping them about THAT still leaves us at the start of the real negotiations to get the final trade deal, or not. In the meantime we have the transitional period, which is becoming shorter and no doubt the EU will start to try and open up when negotiations start on FTA. The WA and PD are the building blocks for the FTA, none of which can be set in motion until we leave the EU.
 
That would be the "sad remainers" of the ERG who prevented the original WA from being voted into law? Remember, it JRM hadn't opposed it, we'd be out of the EU by now.

I like pointing this out, because it causes much furious back-pedalling. Obviously, that WA wasn't Brexit at all, and was righteously prevented by the Forces of Light!...

...while the bravely-renegotiated "sell out the DUP" WA was a real Brexit, brave and true, defeated only by a traitorous few...
Of course it isn't it's the desired political linkage with the EU that some still want. If we get it then Parliament has passed it into law, if on the other hand it's scuppered-it's not. But it is not essential for the trade agreement except in the minds of those slavishly adhering to A 50.
 

Brotherton Lad

LE
Kit Reviewer
OK, mea culpa and did that one in haste after my afternoon nap :) But even swapping them about THAT still leaves us at the start of the real negotiations to get the final trade deal, or not. In the meantime we have the transitional period, which is becoming shorter and no doubt the EU will start to try and open up when negotiations start on FTA. The WA and PD are the building blocks for the FTA, none of which can be set in motion until we leave the EU.
The 11 month transitional period is nowhere near long enough.
 

Auld-Yin

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The 11 month transitional period is nowhere near long enough.
Why not? Most of the subjects have been discussed already, to the nth degree. A period on WTO might just be enough to concentrate EU minds.
 

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