Brexit - The Final

Whining Civvy

Old-Salt
I think it's ill judged tbh. 2nd referendum they could just about get away with claiming democratic, in their view at least. Straight revoke, not a chance in hell. Added to the 'tory enablers' label that sank them last time they are just burying further groups of potential voters long term. Whatever way Brexit turns out parties still need to be able to present themselves as democrats.
We'll see. It looks to me like they're planning for post-Brexit policy - a tacit admission that we'll be out of the EU very shortly - and, given that their one trick has worked very well for them so far, keeping that one trick in play for as long as possible is a sensible move. When their announced main and possibly only relevant policy is to rejoin the EU then a subsequent GE win could easily be sold as a democratic endorsement. Basically, they'll present every GE as a rerun of the referendum until they either win or it stops paying off.

Personally, I think the LibDems have done very well by stating their position early on and then doing nothing. I'd expect them to maintain that momentum for a while, but after that it's anyone's guess. Only a GE result would tell, polls mean nothing. I'm kinda surprised to see people posting them again.
 
No I said the majority of Remainers won’t support vandalising toilets; the same as the majority of leavers won’t support murdering MPs

Yes, drivel. Good choice of adjective.
No I said the majority of Remainers won’t support vandalising toilets; the same as the majority of leavers won’t support murdering MPs

Yes, drivel. Good choice of adjective.
That wasn't your intent at all.
You were suggesting leave supporters think it's OK to murder MP's.

Wretch.
 
It has come to light that remainers are suffering from a mental issue called Stockholm syndrome. They actually start to sympathise with their captors.
 
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And then @Graculus kept saying the remAin campaign was involved in illegal activity......which has now been proven to be b0ll0cks.
It hasn't. Are you really this thick or this big a liar needy guy? You are Brexit's C5.
 
It has come to light that remainers are suffering from a mental issue called Stockholm syndrome. They actually start to sympathise with their captors.
I sympathise with you lot, care in community has let you down big time.
 

Whining Civvy

Old-Salt
What this thread needs is the means to auto-ignore any post with less than four or five punctuation marks. It'd cut the handbag factor by 95% and make it readable again.

Still, carry on chaps.
 
Oh, not everyone, fella.

Just the ones that think radioactive isotopes have a "shelf-life".
And a ‘fella’ has been deployed ...

Keep it cool chaps ;)
 
(...) Or temporary visas are issued to foreign nationals for the time they are needed for agricultural work, as in our former colonies of Australia and New Zealand?
We have temporary farm work visas in Canada as well. I would be surprised if most reasonably well off countries outside of the EU didn't have one.

In Canada the employer must provide transportation to and from wherever the temporary worker comes from. They also must provide suitable housing, and provide private health care coverage until the worker qualifies for government coverage. In Ontario that doesn't happen until after six months residence, so many workers may never qualify for that. I suspect that most other provinces are similar in that respect.

For the normal seasonal worker program the workers must be residents of a country which takes part in the program with Canada - they can't be just anyone from anywhere. Most of the countries who have this arrangement with Canada are Caribbean Commonwealth countries, plus Mexico. Mexico was added to the list as part of the NAFTA treaty negotiations.

Each foreign government has their own process for recruiting and selecting workers. The foreign government is expected to have measures in place to ensure that workers are not being exploited by recruiters in their own country.

Workers on a seasonal permit can stay for up to 8 months and can change employers in the primary agriculture sector. This of course is necessary as different crops have different labour needs through the season.

There are other temporary worker programs related to agriculture as well, but there's not much point in trying to be exhaustive in listing them.


As a teenager I worked on a farm alongside workers from the Caribbean, mainly Trinidad. A number of them I believe had their own farms back home but came to Canada to earn extra cash while the wife looked after the farm back home. Just over half of agricultural labour in Canada is provided by workers under this scheme.

A quick google turns up the following article which says that the UK had its own scheme which ran from just after WWII until 2013 when it was ended just before Romanians and Bulgarians received the automatic right to work in the UK. There's no information in this story on just how those two events were connected, but see further below.
According to that article the UK restarted the program this year with a pilot of it running from March 2019 to December 2020. This pilot allows for 2,500 workers from outside the EU to work in UK agriculture for up to six months. The government will then evaluate the results and presumably use the results of that to tune the regulations before relaunching it on a larger scale.

The UK currently has 27,000 EU agricultural workers living in the UK on a permanent basis, and brings in up to 75,000 additional workers on a seasonal basis.

So it would appear that bringing in temporary agricultural workers on a seasonal basis with a time limited visa is a common and normal practice in many parts of the world. Not only that, the UK itself had such a program itself up until 2013 and reinstated it again this year on a limited trial basis.

According to the following site, the UK program was ended because by the end of its operation it was mainly oriented to bringing in workers from Romania and Bulgaria (58% Bulgarians, 42% Romanians), and as of 2013 those workers could enter the UK without a visa anyway, so it was shut down. I'm not endorsing this site's recommendations by the way, just using them as a source of information on why the visa program was shut down in 2013.

Here's a BBC news story on the pilot revival of the agricultural visa. They are bringing in people from Ukraine, Moldova and Russia. There was no trouble finding people to fill the available visas. The National Farmers Union wants to bring in 30,000 seasonal workers on the visa next year.

There's really nothing preventing the UK from using the system once again to bring in temporary agricultural workers. Access to visas for EU workers can be used as a bargaining point in trade negotiations with the EU (as noted above was the case for Canada in NAFTA negotiations), as well as bringing in workers from Ukraine, Moldova, and possibly further afield as required.

From what I have read I get the impression that the UK will need to reintroduce this visa scheme regardless of whether it leaves the EU or not, as traditional sources of seasonal labour are drying up as the depopulation of the poorer countries proceeds as the younger citizens of those countries move elsewhere in the EU to seek better opportunities than they can have at home. This is a long term problem

So it would appear that not only are there are solutions to this "crisis", the UK government has plans for dealing with it and has already been putting them in place.

I was somewhat familiar with the Canadian program, and it took only a very cursory google to find the information about the UK program. This conversation seems eerily reminiscent of the recent conversation here concerning medical isotopes, where it turned out that contrary to claims by certain people there were plans in place to deal with any shortages.

That the average person who cares little about these things may not be aware of these transition plans is perhaps not too shocking. What I do find surprising is that these claims are being repeated despite, as I have shown twice, information to the contrary being easily available with little effort to anyone who cares to discover the truth, or indeed, simply to those who are willing to read the news.
 

Joker62

ADC
Book Reviewer
Btw, despite my better judgement at indulging idiots who laugh at standard phrases such as shelf-life, a primer for you:



Perhaps it is you who should stick to less challenging threads.
Do either of those documents confirm your suggestion the the phrases "shelf-life" and "half-life" are seamlessly interchangeable, or is this just more of your usual pseudo-academic windbaggery?

I'd hate to think that my making you frantically Google for stuff that late on a Sunday evening was wasted.
 
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Do either of those documents confirm your suggestion the the phrases "shelf-life" and "half-life" are seamlessly interchangeable, or is this just more of your usual pseudo-academic windbaggery?

I'd hate to think that my making you frantically Google for stuff that late on a Sunday evening was pointless.
Yet another fine mess he's gotten himself into.
How do you deliver something with a shelf life of six hours, fcuking fighter jet?
 
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