Brexit - The Final

As I may have already said, we should make careful note of Remainer's wishes and concerns regarding our exit strategy and future trade and economic prospects and direction.

Then discard them.
True, but if things aren't a complete fail you can be certain every remainer will suddenly have a damascene conversion and be offering advice and wanting a seat at the trough.
 
It seems that the Yellowhammer leak is of documents prepared by the May regime and now deliberately leaked by the Hammondry. No recognition that BoJo has got his rescue regime working flat out to fix these things.

The leak is of the worst case scenario.
There are nominal and best case ones, but strangely, EUfanatics don’t leak those.
 

FORMER_FYRDMAN

LE
Book Reviewer
True, but the simple act of leaving the EU would be a massive achievement given what is lined up against him...
One also has to understand the political context of the last twenty years or so.

Since the end of the Cold War, Western elites have increasingly shifted leftwards and camped out in the social democratic space to create a cosy, corporatist, globalist view underpinned by the narrative that they are the best because it's all a meritocracy now.

From this privileged position, they've been able to drive their pet agendas - such as man-made global warming (legitimising the offshoring of manufacturing to cheaper locations), multi-culturalism (ensuring a cheap labour supply) and the extreme promotion of diversity (undermining existing social structures and indigenous identity and enshrining the Orwellian concept of thought crime into law for greater social control). The political elites have been helped in this by largely compliant education and media sectors who've made it increasingly difficult, as well as socially and professionally risky, to challenge this orthodoxy.

The big problem for this group is that, if Brexit goes ahead and works, their authority will be greatly diminished and their cosy co-existence will be in jeopardy, with junkets like the annual pilgrimage to Davos a fading memory. In short, the ultra-liberal stitch-up of the last two decades will come undone and the ability of corporatist managerialists to influence issues to their advantage; largely out of the public gaze and in a manner which certainly flirts with corruption, will be substantially decreased. They'll have to work in the daylight and that's not where they're comfortable.
 

Wordsmith

LE
Book Reviewer
It seems that the Yellowhammer leak is of documents prepared by the May regime and now deliberately leaked by the Hammondry. No recognition that BoJo has got his rescue regime working flat out to fix these things.
It would appear that a media blitz is in the offing,

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/08/18/government-urged-bring-forward-no-deal-planning-campaign-counter/
Boris Johnson has been told to bring forward a £130 million advertising campaign in a major "media blitz" to prepare the UK for a no-deal exit after the leak of Government no-deal warnings sparked fresh alarm.
The joy of being in government is that you can outgun the scare stories.

Wordsmith
 
One also has to understand the political context of the last twenty years or so.

Since the end of the Cold War, Western elites have increasingly shifted leftwards and camped out in the social democratic space to create a cosy, corporatist, globalist view underpinned by the narrative that they are the best because it's all a meritocracy now.

From this privileged position, they've been able to drive their pet agendas - such as man-made global warming (legitimising the offshoring of manufacturing to cheaper locations), multi-culturalism (ensuring a cheap labour supply) and the extreme promotion of diversity (undermining existing social structures and indigenous identity and enshrining the Orwellian concept of thought crime into law for greater social control). The political elites have been helped in this by largely compliant education and media sectors who've made it increasingly difficult, as well as socially and professionally risky, to challenge this orthodoxy.

The big problem for this group is that, if Brexit goes ahead and works, their authority will be greatly diminished and their cosy co-existence will be in jeopardy, with junkets like the annual pilgrimage to Davos a fading memory. In short, the ultra-liberal stitch-up of the last two decades will come undone and the ability of corporatist managerialists to influence issues to their advantage; largely out of the public gaze and in a manner which certainly flirts with corruption, will be substantially decreased. They'll have to work in the daylight and that's not where they're comfortable.
We both agree on the generalities of what has happened to western culture and how its become infected with a culture and a suffocating agenda, which has undermined democracy. In my opinion its proto-fascist in nature.... Where I disagree with you, is they have absolutely no intention of conceding anything. Have you heard any remainers in leadership roles shifting at all ? or the ROW who think us mad, have not learnt a single lesson.

If not for Trump, the US would be full bore hostile and no UK Government can stand up to US and European pressure.. Our once great government has slid from sovereignty to one which adopted the nature of a smooth consultant and accounts for the rise in corruption inside the UK.
 
True, but if things aren't a complete fail you can be certain every remainer will suddenly have a damascene conversion and be offering advice and wanting a seat at the trough.
Post-Brexit, I don't really give a rat's.

I've no doubt most Remainers will continue screeching and trying to claw their way back into the EU's womb.
 
For Factortame not HS2, you do get that?

The HS2 obiter was this:

It is, putting the point at its lowest, certainly arguable (and it is for United Kingdom law and courts to determine) that there may be fundamental principles, whether contained in other constitutional instruments or recognised at common law, of which Parliament when it enacted the European Communities Act 1972 did not either contemplate or authorise the abrogation.

Explained by Elliott with this:

This analysis has practical implications for the primacy of EU law. It has always been clear that that primacy is qualified in the sense that, as a matter of domestic constitutional law, Parliament is free to derogate from EU law provided it makes its intention sufficiently clear. However, the views advanced by Lords Neuberger and Mance in HS2 suggest that the primacy of EU law within the UK system may be more qualified than has so far been appreciated. In particular, it suggests that the “constitutional” status of the ECA does not conclusively establish that EU law prevails over everything except an explicitly-inconsistent Act of Parliament. Instead, the extent of EU law’s qualified primacy is, on this analysis, delimited by other constitutional measures—including (some) other “constitutional” legislation, and perhaps (some) common-law constitutional rights and principles—whose claim to constitutional fundamentality may prove more compelling than that of the ECA itself.

As explained years ago, as an obiter it was more than anything a shot across the bows of the ECJ from the Supreme Court, who are more than capable of looking after justice in the UK

Truly fascinating to see someone pull something from the background as the main point, did you just see what you wanted to?
just to throw this into the melting pot, from the legal teachings of my days in Plod. In principle Common Law evolves, more than likely into statute law that then takes it's place, but then it was always arguable as to why the ECJ should have primacy over UK law (English or Scottish), when it is itself based on the UN conventions,to which the UK signed up before hand. To some extent all EU law does is underpin what's already there, but as the ECHR states- "subject to the Laws in force in a country at the time". It follows that fundamentals of contract law remain unchanged;that individuals rights in terms of status under the immigration act 1971 as amended from time to time remain in place and that any concept that the EU could in anyway interfere in that was always false. The distinction is largely policy.
In relation to Customs, as I've repeatedly said, Brussels having taken control of that under the Lisbon treaty is actually failing to achieve WTO guidelines in ensuring sanctions, prohibitions and restrictions and other safeguards are implemented on a regular basis because of their bone headed contention on frictionless trade. The two are incompatible. WTF is the point of EU/iran sanctions when the EU (France and Germany) want to underpin their trading status with Iran-thus ensuring the French benefit from the remnant of Sykes Picot. Perhaps BL would care to explain that Britain was left in the Lurch by applying the sanctions.
 
Post-Brexit, I don't really give a rat's.

I've no doubt most Remainers will continue screeching and trying to claw their way back into the EU's womb.
I think that the screeching is being down now because they realise that if the UK leaves the EU, there is no going back.
 

goodoldboy

MIA
Book Reviewer
This would lead to a very interesting situation , whereby Irish Nationalists , Protestants and the British all unite in tearing it down every night , or the " Boys " use violence on the contractors for getting in the way of their cheeky little scams .
I don't see why it would threaten the GFA in any way though , or if it did , Brussels would soon be viewed as the enemy , which would bring pressure on Varadkar to come to a separate agreement.
A border will not suit the Republic in any way , and Varadkar should stop being the front man for the EU heavy mob , or it will cost him politically in the very short term .
Bear in mind , this is the country that had to be " persuaded " to change it's vote on the Lisbon treaty .
Irish politicians may love the EU , Irish voters don't .
Really? Why would the British want to tear down the EU's fence surrounding NI?
 

Wordsmith

LE
Book Reviewer
Post-Brexit, I don't really give a rat's.

I've no doubt most Remainers will continue screeching and trying to claw their way back into the EU's womb.
When we're out, we're out. We'd have to sign up to euro membership, free movements and restore all EU regulations we'd binned. We'd also have to revoke any trade agreements we'd signed post Brexit. Given that re-joining the EU would almost certainly require a referendum, the result of that referendum is likely to be a resounding two fingers.

The increasingly hysterical attempt to derail Brexit are an acknowledgement of that.

Wordsmith
 
Post-Brexit, I don't really give a rat's.

I've no doubt most Remainers will continue screeching and trying to claw their way back into the EU's womb.
When we say remainers we are largely talking about the Urban Middle Class, who are being manipulated by a tighter group of federalists. I am always amused by my brethren, as they have complete cognitive dissonance about any subject which is a settled one for them... But what is not funny is they won't take Brexit lying down and have the latent power to undermine a thing by making sure its not a success (or the media represent it as a failure). So what happens after Brexit is very pertinent to the finale.....
 
When we're out, we're out. We'd have to sign up to euro membership, free movements and restore all EU regulations we'd binned. We'd also have to revoke any trade agreements we'd signed post Brexit. Given that re-joining the EU would almost certainly require a referendum, the result of that referendum is likely to be a resounding two fingers.

The increasingly hysterical attempt to derail Brexit are an acknowledgement of that.

Wordsmith
DeGaulle didn't want the UK to join the EEC for fear it would affect the direction of travel. Macron won't want the UK to rejoin the EU, so long as it can affect his Empire Petit.
 
I can't recall a bigger lie in history than that which is perpetuated by the remain movement i.e. Brexit is all about economics.... Weirdly, most of the remainers on this site are allegedly against a USE, which makes them breathtakingly stupid or part of that conspiracy of silence.
Blair's remarks in particular (and love him or loath him, he is not a stupid man) have led me to the view that whilst the immediate economic prospects may be painful, we should survive and prosper.

The argument for the USE is harder to make, but falls into the direction of travel beloved of the Davos set. My view has always been that Project Fear was chosen as the way forward simply because Cameron and Osborne knew it was impossible to make a convincing case for a future of ever closer integration into a USE. Privately, this was eminently acceptable to them, but they knew it was not a view shared by most of the public.

Whilst I have long argued that a more integrated Global Community is ultimately the way to go, too many in power are still gaming the politics for vested interest whilst hitting the throttle too hard. Too much, too fast is precisely why they have come unstuck. There now has to be a pause, allowing the nation state time to adjust.
 
When we say remainers we are largely talking about the Urban Middle Class, who are being manipulated by a tighter group of federalists. I am always amused by my brethren, as they have complete cognitive dissonance about any subject which is a settled one for them... But what is not funny is they won't take Brexit lying down and have the latent power to undermine a thing by making sure its not a success (or the media represent it as a failure). So what happens after Brexit is very pertinent to the finale.....
You do realise that Projekt Fear was not just aimed at Leavers, don't you?
 
Vine on R2 will be in full flow this afternoon if his pre show brief was anything to go by.
Bog roll shortages, food shortages, planes falling out of the sky.
It’s like 25 June 16, day one again.
You remain voters have no shame and need professional help.
 

Wordsmith

LE
Book Reviewer
I wonder if this is BoJo's plan.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/08/19/brexit-latest-news-boris-johnson-no-deal/
Senior Brexiteers have urged Boris Johnson to call a snap election in a bid to head off Jeremy Corbyn and the Remainer MPs preparing to topple him next month. Iain Duncan Smith, the former Conservative leader, has said that the Prime Minister should call the Labour leader’s bluff and go to the country before opposition MPs and Tory rebels have a chance to bring him down.

With Mr Corbyn widely expected to table a motion of no confidence when MPs return in September, Mr Duncan Smith said that Mr Johnson could outflank him by calling a snap election. He told The Sun that calling an election before MPs have a chance to vote down the Government would hand Mr Johnson the advantage and allow him to frame the poll as a vote to save Brexit.

“If a confidence vote is called, an option for the [Prime Minister] is to call an immediate vote for a General Election instead,” he continued. “For the Labour party to refuse that would mean a total loss of face, and we would win that Election, as it would be fought on who governs Britain and saving Brexit.”
If BoJo calls the GE for the week before Brexit, maskes an irrivocable promise to Brexit in a week's time, and TBP stand aside, I'd say BoJo's home and dry - not least because the opposition parties could only campaign on delaying/reversing Brexit - and the opinion polls suggest that's politically toxic.

It would be hilarious trying to watch Corbyn (who's sure to lose seats in a GE) trying to come up with reasons not to have one. It also neuters the Tory MPs who might collude with Jezza to thwart Brexit.

The beauty of it is BoJo just has to wait for Corbyn to make his move - no vote of no confidence and BoJo keeps working towards Brexit. As soon as Jezza calls for a no confidence vote, BoJo trumps him by calling for a GE.

Wordsmith
 

Joker62

ADC
Book Reviewer
Blair's remarks in particular (and love him or loath him, he is not a stupid man) have led me to the view that whilst the immediate economic prospects may be painful, we should survive and prosper.

The argument for the USE is harder to make, but falls into the direction of travel beloved of the Davos set. My view has always been that Project Fear was chosen as the way forward simply because Cameron and Osborne knew it was impossible to make a convincing case for a future of ever closer integration into a USE. Privately, this was eminently acceptable to them, but they knew it was not a view shared by most of the public.

Whilst I have long argued that a more integrated Global Community is ultimately the way to go, too many in power are still gaming the politics for vested interest whilst hitting the throttle too hard. Too much, too fast is precisely why they have come unstuck. There now has to be a pause, allowing the nation state time to adjust.
Yep; remain has one argument(fear) and no wiggle room. As they can't articulate the bright future within the EU, without admitting the costs AND without talking about that subject, the politicians have undermine democracy across europe.....

Within your GC, the entire EU theory appears to be any nation state of a size less than a superpower is dead and regional blocs are the answer. That theory is elegant and simple, but relies entirely on potential threat to survive. If attacked of course we are stronger together, but equally without trust and social capital, you will eventually fail.

I saw Bosnia close up and it wasn't serb/croat nationalism that did for the place but trust broke down and without an external threat the place imploded.
 
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