Brexit - The Final

I doubt it would be as hostile as it was during the referendum. The Turkey lies, and the argument is a little more understood now and polls (for what they're worth) arle showing a shift. Although a second referendum is not a popular choice currently it is more likely now that Remain would win View attachment 383361
Your polling doesn't cover like/dislike, only Remain or Leave... I'm sure if you surveyed 1000 partners living in abusive relationships, how many would say they want to leave ??

My point was a more fundamental one i.e. Even if remain gets its second referendum and we remain. What would the result of the euro elections be, how would the british people see or interperate our relationship wi europe and how much bitterness would pollute everything.
 
Remain should’ve won first time around, but they didn’t. A shed load of remainers have accepted the referendum result and can’t undesstnd why it’s not been accepted by the political elite.

Let them have a second referendum, or a 3rd, maybe even a 4th.

Whilst we’re in the EU and not completely shackled to it, the U.K. will be seen as the problem child and marginalised. Best get out now so we can be masters of our own destiny.
As I said, people have misunderstood my point...

We won the first referendum on a peoples wish. Now our wishes have been thwarted a second referendum would have a strong tinge of 'why bother', 'whats the point' or even 'I am getting scared now, so will not vote or even vote remain'.... Demographic changes and any drop in brexit turnout or even project fear II switchers is exactly why remain are seeing the so called peoples vote as a shoe in.

The government and the deeper remainers I suspect can't call that referendum because simply winning it will complete the infection in our democracy and sour what little relationship we have left with the EU. But the longer we delay the greater the chances that souring process is diluted.
 

FORMER_FYRDMAN

LE
Book Reviewer
I've always wondered at this very strange symbiosis of the liberal-left and global capitalism. It is what I consider to be probably the most troubling aspect of the EU.
There's no mystery there - it's good old-fashioned corporatism, a core tenet of classical fascism and much beloved of the liberal left as the acceptable compromise between social responsibility and economic competence.
 
A50 extension request

 
Theresa May says that the idea that the public should be asked to elect a new set of MEPs "is unacceptable".

She says she has written to President of the EU Council, Donald Tusk, informing the UK will be seeking an extension to 30 June.
https://www.bbc.com/news/live/uk-politics-parliaments-47614151

Which should get f@cked right off at the high port because it brings nothing new to the table.

It is also being sent by snail carrier to ensure that it arrives in Brussels long after 29 March :D:D
 

Wordsmith

LE
Book Reviewer
At this point, the least damaging solution is a hard Brexit on the 29th which will bring clarity. With the referendum result properly observed and without the need for the EU to compromise its key principles, the need to avoid unnecessary economic impacts will become the driving factor and discussions will no longer be a dialogue of the deaf, driven by two mutually exclusive agendas.
Pretty much, although I cannot but feel that Canada Plus is a far better business model than trying to retain preferential access to the single market. As we have discussed before, the EU is being driven down the more political and financial integration route - if we retain access to the single market, we'll be pressured to keep our laws/regulations aligned with that further integration. Canada Plus enables us to maintain a friendly trading relationship with the EU without all that baggage.

In addition, I suspect the EU is heading for a political impasse - moves towards further integration will result in further gains by the populist (ant-EU) parties. You'll then get the European commission proposing new laws/regulations and the EU parliament vetoing them. With Canada Pus, again we can avoid that dog fight.

The final merit of Canada Pus is that, if we can revert to the position of friendly trading partner without being involved in the EU's political spats, we can become an 'honest broker' and try and advance the UK's interest in Europe by being seen as both helpful and as a moderating influence.

Wordsmith
 
The final merit of Canada Pus is that, if we can revert to the position of friendly trading partner without being involved in the EU's political spats, we can become an 'honest broker' and try and advance the UK's interest in Europe by being seen as both helpful and as a moderating influence.

Wordsmith
More influence from the outside pissing in.

Spectacular mental gymnastics.

How'd you figure that out?
 
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I’m not bitter.

I was annoyed that twice Tony Blair offered a referendum on Europe and both times failed to deliver one.

A referendum was finally offered although everything possible was done by the government of the day to make it fail. When it didn’t fail the political elite and their banker chums have moved heaven and earth to stop it happening.
It’s ok after all 2 million isn’t a substantial majority. Given that effectivelyScotland NI and Wales should have had a x 2 factor automatically allocated because the have two parliaments, it’s as clear as a pike staff remain won, moreover Juveniles, the unborn, and 3 to 4 million illegals didn’t get a chance nor did about 25% of the brainless voters who didn’t have the guts to come off the fence. Remain won, why don't Leavers get it?
 

Wordsmith

LE
Book Reviewer
https://www.bbc.com/news/live/uk-politics-parliaments-47614151

Which should get f@cked right off at the high port because it brings nothing new to the table.

It is also being sent by snail carrier to ensure that it arrives in Brussels long after 29 March :D:D
PMTM doesn't went European elections because Farage's new party will stand and predictable be heavily supported by people who want Brexit - Labour and Tory alike.

In any case May doesn't get the casting vote, the Supreme Court does. Leave Means Leave have put forward a case that as European law trumps UK law, the decision of whether elections can be held should be determined by the varying EU treaties.

Finally, if May does defer the Brexit date till June, I think the Tories are in for a fearful shafting in the May local elections. A lot of the Tory voter base is Brexit supporting and they'll desert the party in droves to make it clear what will happen if May doesn't deliver Brexit. I also suspect the scale of the losses will be such that May will find it near impossible to fight off demands for her resignation.

If you are going to kick the tin can down the road, do it for a sensible reason, not because you have painted yourself into a corner and have no way out. May is procrastinating because she doesn't have a clue how to resolve her problems.

Wordsmith
 
Hitters biggest cheerleaders were big business.
Very true. German economic policy in the 30s was described as corporatist. Many smaller German businesses were put out of business in order to strengthen the position of the larger German firms. Europe was seen as a captive market for large German business and a secured source of raw materials.

The business ideology of then still permeates today especially when quite a few of those big businesses are still around. The Quandt family who own BMW have a very chequered past and present. That’s why I’m not too bothered about BMW threats being used by project fear.
 

Wordsmith

LE
Book Reviewer
There was NO Canada Plus on offer. It contained the following caveats.

1. FOM to continue.

2. ECJ jurisdiction.

Neither of which are in CETA
I suspect they might be up for negotiation if we do a no deal Brexit. The UK will then be in a position to say Foxtrot Oscar to any such proposals from the European Commission. And with trade affected on both sides of the Channel, the Europe Commission is going to come under huge pressure from the EU member states to compromise.

Wordsmith
 
More influence from the outside pissing in.

Spectacular mental gymnastics.

How'd you figure that out?

Actually I did meet someone at a friends party, who was working here in a new lobbying group the UK government has apparently set up to try and maintain soft power and influence.
Although found out yesterday she has gone back to London, so no idea if the lobby group is still a thing or not.
 

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