Brexit - The Final

ugly

LE
Moderator
EU statement today does not say the vote has to take place, only that the extension to 22 May will be agreed if it passes. It doesn't say the third vote has to take place only mentions if it is not approved.

Following a request by Prime Minister Theresa May, the European Council (Article 50) agreed on Thursday 21 March to extend the UK's departure date to 22 May 2019, provided the Withdrawal Agreement is approved by the House of Commons by 29 March 2019 at the latest. If the Withdrawal Agreement is not approved by the House of Commons by then, the European Council has agreed to an extension until 12 April 2019. In that scenario, the United Kingdom would be expected to indicate a way forward before this date.

While the European Union continues to hope that it will not be the case, this means that if the Withdrawal Agreement is not ratified by Friday 29 March, a “no-deal” scenario may occur on 12 April. The EU has prepared for this scenario and has remained united throughout its preparations. It is now important that everyone is ready for and aware of the practical consequences a “no-deal” scenario brings.


Full EU Statement on Extension and No-Deal Scenario

The statement just after the meeting last week does not stipulate that the 3rd vote has to take place, just that it has to be approved.
Then it's changed since last week press release and Tusks interview!
 
F-knows. But the security in place around the petition mechanisms appears risible. For example, it appears that 13 scientists from the British Antarctic Territory have been so incensed by Brexit they have signed the petition.

View attachment 384528

In any event, the data does not appear there to be able to validate the results.


So there is absolutely no way, without access to the raw data, to verify how genuine the signatures are. For example, were there a proper forensic examination carried out on the data, it would be interesting to see how many 'signatures' came from a specific IP address. I suspect the answer would be tens if not hundreds of thousands.

And release of the email addresses used to vote would be a breach of GDPR, as an email address is generally specific to an individual and would be regarded as Personally Identifiable Information (PII), particularly when assigned to a post code. So no way will the raw data needed to determine the degree to which the petition has been gamed be made available.

In other words, all anyone is doing is speculating without access to the appropriate information. However, given that it is possible to spoof the website, and given the rate signatures were appended appears to be an order of magnitude above what has been seen previously on this website (causing it to repeatedly crash), I would say the entire petition mechanism is suspect.

The only thing we can be sure of is that:
  1. Given enough aliased email addresses, you can vote tens of thousands of time.
  2. The only form of validation that appears to be applied is that a specific email address in not used more than twice.
  3. No checks appear to be being applied as to the "I am a British Citizen", postcode and location fields are being correctly filled in.
I just signed the 'revoke article 50' petition as Donald Duck from the Vatican with an invalid post code.

View attachment 384540
(You can check the post code is invalid by plugging it into a postcode checking website such as Postcode Finder – Find an Address | Royal Mail Group Ltd)

A government website that doesn't even check whether the entered postcode is valid is a f-ing joke.

Wordsmith
Would a Freedom of Information request allow a release of information about IP addresses and spurious (email addresses) entries under GDPR rules? If not, it does raise some interesting questions about sovereignty
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
If anyone is wondering about why they are ignored its because arguing with stupid name callers is a waste of time when I could be searching tumblr for the last vestiges of mature porn before the govt ban even that
 
It's rancid because it centres around exclusion, isolationism and blaming foreigners for domestic ills.

Civil rights and suffragettes were movements for inclusion.

Complete opposites
Utter Remainiac bolleaux.

The only rancid thing is your brain, or what passes for one.
 
I can't say for certain it effects everyone quite the same way, but I can only go by my own experience that it seems to depend on how vulnerable you are to diabetes and your lifestyle

It's not likely to be lack of exercise and over indulgence in her case, but stress and diabetes are not good bedfellows either and with all the politics around Brexit and whatever you think of her, she must be suffering a lot of stress over the last few years

From what I've seen, Diabetes can change your personality, it can effect your judgement and at the time you are not necessarily aware of it, I certainly wasn't

It's only when it's well managed you notice the difference, and in her circumstances it must be hard to stop it flaring up

So the short answer is maybe, it's certainly possible that she could be finding it hard to manage her diabetes, but who knows for certain, everyone is effected by it differently so it's hard to tell with certainty
I think it may come to the point where she has 'that conversation' from her husband. After all, it took some strong words from Denis to convince Maggie to stand down in 1990.

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk
 
I'm not trying to convince a closed mind.

Are you expecting another referendum? Why would you need me to convince you?
That's almost funny seeing as what passes for your mind has been suplerglued shut since you believed your first piece of EU propaganda.
 
Those are interesting disqualifications, because it rules out all of the efficiencies that come from sharing administrative burdens, and removing needless duplication.

For instance, we can run our own CAA (it might take a few more years to set it up) but it's cheaper and more sensible to share it with other European countries as part of EASA. I mean, do you really need a completely separate pilot training syllabus for the UK and the Republic of Ireland? The same applies to the European Medicines Agency.

We could run our own national space program, but it's cheaper and more sensible to share the burden in the form of ESA. How much will a Galileo replacement cost us? Will we call our first Skylon "Anastasia"?

We could run our own large-scale nuclear fusion program, but it's cheaper and more sensible to share the burden in the form of JET / ITER. We could build our own supercollider, but it made a lot more sense to have a part-share in CERN. By being able to bid into trans-European projects in much of basic science, we're able to take up more of our fair share of the research funds, because we're got a decent set of universities able to carry out the research. It's not just the research - it's being able to use it in industry afterwards. EUCLID, PROMETHEUS, etc.

Having a reasonably close political organisation has also allowed EHIC cards, visa-free travel, and the removal of the ability of phone companies to screw you over with "roaming charges".

We might grab (say) Google or Facebook by the throat and say "pay your taxes where you earn your profits, stop shuffling the cash around to avoid it" - it's a lot easier if you're a large trading bloc rather than a single country, from a position of 500 million potentially lost customers, than 65 million.

It's a lot easier to impose meaningful sanctions on a country that starts being an utter dick (say... Russia) if you're able to provide a consistent front across the whole of a political entity. Likewise, anti-dumping sanctions from a trade perspective.

Of course all of these things can be done by a sovereign nation - but ask yourself whether we'd be able to afford to do all of them at the same time, or whether we'd see the same f***up that was UK industrial policy in the early 70s; bright ideas that soaked up the available cash, but couldn't spread enough and ended up betting it on the wrong horses...
All of that would be nice if it were true.

It's not.
 

Wordsmith

LE
Book Reviewer
I do not dispute that. The point (as raised in the article you linked to) is that illegitimate signatures are subsequently removed.
I seriously doubt it. Because there is no way you can validate whether an email address is genuinely associated with a specific postcode or whether anyone is genuinely a British citizen. And given the website allows you to enter invalid post codes without rejecting them, the level of security associated with it is risible.

There is absolutely no way that the bulk of the illegitimate signatures are being removed. From playing with the website, I suspect the best you could do is remove signatures from invalid postcodes, or with obviously false signatures like Donald Duck. Which will be a tiny faction of the false entries.

There is no way the petitions website has been penetration tested to verify if it can be gamed - that was obvious the instant I found I could enter a non-existent postcode. A decent website would have validated the post code as part of the data entry process.

Had I been finalising a penetration testing report on this website, recommendation one would have been to remove the website from service until more robust validation was put in place. The second recommendation would be put some form of limit in place on the number of submissions from a specific IP address. The third would be ban aliased email addressees and so on.

From the security perspective the website is a joke.

Wordsmith
 
Government is responsible for planning for the worst of course.

Meanwhile, 84 leavers continue on the long march the weekend after a million remainers march in London


#russianbotsdontriot
The "million" claim was by the organisers.
Actuality was no more than half that at best.

Meanwhile, you keep on spouting wubble, whilst failing to tell us why staying in the EU & becoming part of a Federal superstate is such a brilliant idea.

Because it isn't
And you're a credulous cretin.

YFM
 

Wordsmith

LE
Book Reviewer
Would a Freedom of Information request allow a release of information about IP addresses and spurious (email addresses) entries under GDPR rules? If not, it does raise some interesting questions about sovereignty
How do you decide if the data is spurious? Releasing genuine data by mistake would still be a breach of GDPR.

What is personal data?
  • Personal data is information that relates to an identified or identifiable individual.
  • What identifies an individual could be as simple as a name or a number or could include other identifiers such as an IP address or a cookie identifier, or other factors.
I'm not a lawyer, but my understanding is that a combination of email address (generally unique to an individual) and postcode would often enable an individual to be identified. For example joe.bloggs@ISP.com and a postcode of BN5 7GH would enable a specific individual to be identified from the electoral roll - and would hence be a breach of GDPR.

And, as I've said before, from an security perspective, the website appears to be amateur hour. All statements that spurious data is being removed is - I suspect - Sir Humphry talking bollox because it is going to be near impossible to remove any data sent from a 'UK' based IP address (easily spoofed using a VPN service) and using a genuine postcode.

Articles such as this one claiming the signatures are genuine, just demonstrate an utter lack of understanding about how the site can be manipulated. A classic demonstration of how to be a 'useful idiot'.

Revoke Article 50 petition hijacked claims debunked

Wordsmith
 
The "million" claim was by the organisers.
Actuality was no more than half that at best.
I'm hearing from reliable sources it was no more than 300,000 in reality.
 
Some of the more optimistic had it at 2m plus.
Looking forward to Fridays turnout. I expect the excuses to start almost immediately.
Those more experienced observers put it at 500k, max & less than half the 2003 "stop the war" protest.
 
I've just looked at National Express for getting home. Its a remarkably reasonable £25!
I can get one of my lorry drivers to drop me in London Friday morning and catch a bus back late Friday night. (or I could wait until the ealry hours of Saturday and get one of my weekend drivers to pick me up)

I think Mrs Jaman isn't too impressed with the idea but it looks fairly sure that I will attend. Unless Parliament decides between then and now to honour democracy.

I have never been on a protest in my life, but it looks like I will go on this one.
If i get down, I'll be driving down & parking out at Harrow.
 
And the 48% who voted leave would have derided as bigots...

and those left behind by eu policies would have been pushed further back.

but at least remainers could get coffee from eastern European baristas.
If the cap fits....
 
How do you decide if the data is spurious? Releasing genuine data by mistake would still be a breach of GDPR.

What is personal data?


I'm not a lawyer, but my understanding is that a combination of email address (generally unique to an individual) and postcode would often enable an individual to be identified. For example joe.bloggs@ISP.com and a postcode of BN5 7GH would enable a specific individual to be identified from the electoral roll - and would hence be a breach of GDPR.

And, as I've said before, from an security perspective, the website appears to be amateur hour. All statements that spurious data is being removed is - I suspect - Sir Humphry talking bollox because it is going to be near impossible to remove any data sent from a 'UK' based IP address (easily spoofed using a VPN service) and using a genuine postcode.

Articles such as this one claiming the signatures are genuine, just demonstrate an utter lack of understanding about how the site can be manipulated. A classic demonstration of how to be a 'useful idiot'.

Revoke Article 50 petition hijacked claims debunked

Wordsmith
Would it be fair to say that if I made a database of
  • all UK postcodes and addresses;
  • a healthy number of British sounding names;
  • a few domain names with thousands of emails per domain
And had a load of IP addresses from VPNs or DNS hijacking and a script to reply to the emails, then it would be straightforward to scam the results?
 

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