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Brexit Phase Two - Trade

I could explain how wrong you are, how muddled your thinking is and how silly that is. If you think all we have to do is channel our inner Francis Drake and nip off and singe the king of Spain’s beard.
No wonder you were fooled by a bus.
Bollox, you do talk it. No one's talking singeing anyone's beard. It may have escaped your attention but we were at war with Spain intermittently in those days. After which it was the Dutch after which it was the French. I'm not talking about being at war with anyone. Merely that once we would be able to act without worrying too much about the applecart we've been avoiding upsetting for the last 50 years. Perhaps we would also return to the concept of not selling off our strategic assets for short term gain of a few people. We've done it twice in my life time, once post war and once again whilst in the EC/EU.
 
I could explain how wrong you are, how muddled your thinking is and how silly that is. If you think all we have to do is channel our inner Francis Drake and nip off and singe the king of Spain’s beard.
No wonder you were fooled by a bus.
Roverman is almost right. We founded an empire on trade, although we reinforced it militarily when needed, in general it was about trade. We didn’t even have a very large army compared to France and Germany - look up the numbers pre WW1 to see. The entire Empire had less then 1 million men in uniform, whereas Germany had over 4.5 million each, and France 4 million, and Russia 5.7 million. Even Japan had a standing army almost the size of the British one.

(I remember reading how pre 1914 visiting Germans asked where all the soldiers occupying India were hiding. They weren’t hiding, they didn’t exist).

We did it with trade agreements. Those agreements made everyone money. From Indian farmers to mill workers, to factory owners, to governments.

Since those glorious days, it’s only got better. You old salts might not like it, but today’s warrior is an MBA, his assault weapon is his laptop, his APC is a business class flight. You can hump a mortar base plate for 22 years, but your impact on the world is one tenth of bugger all. Six men in a week can do more for your country than you will ever do.

I really did spend ten years jetting first class around Asia, initially for my French employer (who paid me shit) then for the Australian government as a trade consultant (who jerked me around), then finally for international finance teams raising finance for the booming Asian tiger economies. (Those guys gave me a lifestyle I have never forgotten and will one day write a book about)

I backed those years up with a good MBA ( my business school was ranked 22 in the world the year I graduated), postgrad economics, and a MSc in international business.

Believe me, I know first hand how agile you have to be in international trade, and how things can go so well or so badly - sometimes because you were a few hours late to the party (or didn’t provide the right drugs or hookers, or supplied a Porsche not a Ferrari to some government minister.

Trade, fast flowing trade, not rigid agreements, builds empires.
 
I reckon that the Tories are going to get hammered in the local elections due to the windrush deportation mess.

What better way to let the world know the UK is open for business and not pulling up the drawbridge than punting out folk who've resided in the UK for 50 years.
 

Wordsmith

LE
Book Reviewer
I really did spend ten years jetting first class around Asia, initially for my French employer (who paid me shit) then for the Australian government as a trade consultant (who jerked me around), then finally for international finance teams raising finance for the booming Asian tiger economies. (Those guys gave me a lifestyle I have never forgotten and will one day write a book about)
Do you mind not demonstrating you know about what you talk about. It discriminates against the 'knowledge impaired' on this thread.

Wordsmith
 
Where have I ever said MBAs were worthless. The dame worked hard for hers. The view I take on them is if they’re the all knowing oracle and worthier than an econ masters or degree.
How come they too missed the slump/crash/banking collapse? I could be wrong but not even David Icke was warning us about it.

There’s quoting and making stuff up. Vast difference.
Ad per my post above, in the mid 90s a bunch of MBAs were selling finance into Asia. In 1996 alone those MBAs sold just under USD100 billion of loans to five countries. In one year.... one hundred billion.

Do you think we didn’t do our due dilligence?

Do you think we didn’t see that they were borrowing Eurobonds on pegged exchange rate economies to build residential properties? Do you think we didn’t calculate what would happen if the rate moved?

Do you think I didn’t know that in Bangkok in January 1997 there were 350,000 empty apartments, and 100,000 more bring built? Apartments that couldn’t connect to basic services like sewerage, power and water. The canals that provided basic drainage were being filled in to widen roads - guaranteeing flooding in high rain.

And we were funding them!

Do you think I didn’t know, and report, that lands being offered as security on Loans was being used three times over for different loans, and in fact belonged to crown property bureau - the king?

Do you think the MBAs at Perrigin Finance in HK didn’t know, when it loaned Steady Safe taxis 300 million that its total business assets were a fleet of clapped out Old taxis making an average $30 a day?

Hong Kong's Peregrine Soared Like a Falcon, Sank Like a Reckless Bank

Shareholders, addicted to high profits, demanded that everyone ignore the obvious.

MBAs are hired guns. They do what they are told to do, and they do it very well. But it’s boards of directors you are talking about.

Blind Freddie could see the GFC coming. No one wanted to acknowledge it.

The saddest bit Skid, the bit that hurts to this day. Flying out of Jakarta at the bottom of its descent into hell (another book due there) an American I worked with leaned over and said “god knows how many children will go to bed hungry tonight because of what we have done”.

We were hired guns. Those same hired guns can do brexit. Those same hired guns warned about the GFC. Governance committees and boards of directors didn’t listen.
 
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Anyone else notice that Macron is looking more and more like uncle Sam's contact point across the pond after yesterday's performance.

Whilst the UK indulges itself in this utterly asinine waste of time our influence is being diminished on the world stage, lobbing a few missiles into Syria excepted
 

Auld-Yin

ADC
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Reviews Editor
Pointless and enormously expensive.

Why bother?

How can we achieve Turdsmiths dream of being a 'lean', 'agile' and 'lightouch' sweatshop if we are spending extra billions on this kind of thing?
I wonder how many of the associate countries forced to feed off the EU-EASA tit and pay handsomely for the privilege to do so would opt to join a UK based ASA? Might be as good an earner as the EU have! :cool:
 
Do you mind not demonstrating you know about what you talk about. It discriminates against the 'knowledge impaired' on this thread.

Wordsmith
You actively wish to make the lives of your fellow citizens worse through your ideology of light touch race to the bottom fantasy.

Your attitude disgusts me and is traitorous in my view.

You'll be swinging from a lamppost outside the dog and duck if your fantasy is ever realised, which luckily for all concerned, it won't be.
 

Auld-Yin

ADC
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Reviews Editor
Same as above. You aren’t going to win a debate like that.
You do know that you are trying to educate and change the SPOTY2017 winner and second runner-up? Quite a feat by Baggie/S******inabag!
 

skid2

LE
Book Reviewer
Bollox, you do talk it. No one's talking singeing anyone's beard. It may have escaped your attention but we were at war with Spain intermittently in those days. After which it was the Dutch after which it was the French. I'm not talking about being at war with anyone. Merely that once we would be able to act without worrying too much about the applecart we've been avoiding upsetting for the last 50 years. Perhaps we would also return to the concept of not selling off our strategic assets for short term gain of a few people. We've done it twice in my life time, once post war and once again whilst in the EC/EU.

You’re suggesting we renationalise and rebuild our manufacturing base. It would be good to see some stomach for that. I still don’t see the point in leaving the Eu and continuing to send our profits abroad.

We had a large trading area with Europe. Allied with a favoured trading area thanks to the Eu.

We had the muscle to limit Eu freedom of movement, we chose not to do that either. Our PM takes off to China in a trip to get all the flags waving and the rah, rah, rah going.

What does she find, the French and Germans merrily trading like crazy, still within the auspices of the Eu. If they could do it, why couldn’t we?

I believe it came down to the same reason we failed to control our borders. Political will.

There was nothing to prevent us or anyone else going out and looking for trade and business opportunities. But we didn’t.

Now it’s the Eus fault and instead of negotiating from a position of influence and strength from within the Eu. We find ourselves, through nothing but fault of our own, starting from the position of being a ‘third country’

A third country, not only as far as Europe is concerned but the rest of the world. If we wished to do ourselves harm, we couldn’t have made a better job of it than how we’ve gone about Brexit.

Never mind money and trade it has cost us immeasurably in power, influence and prestige.

We can get the money and trade back, the other three may be more difficult to redeem.
 
And fwiw, and waaaaay off topic, a group of us sat down and wrote an algorithm in R which provided the true value of Sydney housing by modelling all of the relevant factors. Transport costs, access to schooling, per hour access to good employment at employment rates of pay, huge thing.

Sydney houses are 3x what they should be. A $750,000 three bedroom house is really worth $250,000.

Why? Because every idiot thinks they can make money buying and selling them. Now they have reached a point where a buyer couple cannot service the debt and reduce the capital in their lifetime.

Does that ring warning bells? It should.

Did anyone show any interest? Home owners with a big investment, real estate agents selling homes, builders erecting them, land owners selling the land, local councils who make rates incomes, local governments who make stamp duty, politicians who get votes.

No one wants to hear bad news.

Even when MBAs tell them that bad news.
 

skid2

LE
Book Reviewer
Ad per my post above, in the mid 90s a bunch of MBAs were selling finance into Asia. In 1996 alone those MBAs sold just under USD100 billion of loans to five countries. In one year.... one hundred billion.

Do you think we didn’t do our due dilligence?

Do you think we didn’t see that they were borrowing Eurobonds on pegged exchange rate economies to build residential properties? Do you think we didn’t calculate what would happen if the rate moved?

Do you think I didn’t know that in Bangkok in January 1997 there were 350,000 empty apartments, and 100,000 more bring built? Apartments that couldn’t connect to basic services like sewerage, power and water. The canals that provided basic drainage were being filled in to widen roads - guaranteeing flooding in high rain.

And we were funding them!

Do you think I didn’t know, and report, that lands being offered as security on Loans was being used three times over for different loans, and in fact belonged to crown property bureau - the king?

Do you think the MBAs at Perrigin Finance in HK didn’t know, when it loaned Steady Safe taxis 300 million that its total business assets were a fleet of clapped out Old taxis making an average $30 a day?

Hong Kong's Peregrine Soared Like a Falcon, Sank Like a Reckless Bank

Shareholders, addicted to high profits, demanded that everyone ignore the obvious.

MBAs are hired guns. They do what they are told to do, and they do it very well. But it’s boards of directors you are talking about.

Blind Freddie could see the GFC coming. No one wanted to acknowledge it.

The saddest bit Skid, the bit that hurts to this day. Flying out of Jakarta at the bottom of its descent into hell (another book due there) an American I worked with leaned over and said “god knows how many children will go to bed hungry tonight because of what we have done”.

We were hired guns. Those same hired guns can do brexit. Those same hired guns warned about the GFC. Governance committees and boards of directors didn’t listen.
And you’re right. See my above post, we don’t have and we dont seem interested in getting teams of trade negotiators and sending them out to bring home the bacon.

No doubt that will get sorted out when it sinks in that not everyone is queuing up to play with us. Too little, too late.
 

skid2

LE
Book Reviewer
And fwiw, and waaaaay off topic, a group of us sat down and wrote an algorithm in R which provided the true value of Sydney housing by modelling all of the relevant factors. Transport costs, access to schooling, per hour access to good employment at employment rates of pay, huge thing.

Sydney houses are 3x what they should be. A $750,000 three bedroom house is really worth $250,000.

Why? Because every idiot thinks they can make money buying and selling them. Now they have reached a point where a buyer couple cannot service the debt and reduce the capital in their lifetime.



Does that ring warning bells? It should.

Did anyone show any interest? Home owners with a big investment, real estate agents selling homes, builders erecting them, land owners selling the land, local councils who make rates incomes, local governments who make stamp duty, politicians who get votes.

No one wants to hear bad news.

Even when MBAs tell them that bad news.

Been said before. My parents bought a house on one income. I thought I was on beans and a beer free existence when I did it.
Houses were in double figures and 3 or 4 Times your income.
Not now. And not in the last 20 years
 
Been said before. My parents bought a house on one income. I thought I was on beans and a beer free existence when I did it.
Houses were in double figures and 3 or 4 Times your income.
Not now. And not in the last 20 years
Exactly, and any MBA worth the cost of the bit of paper it’s printed on can crunch the numbers and tell you it’s a nightmare just waiting to happen.

But no one wants to hear. Or at least that’s what we found.

And back in 96 no one wanted to hear.

Doubtless in 08 no one wanted to hear....
 
You may well have been in the wrong bit..I’ve spent time in shit cities. Berlin never struck me as one, at least not in the recent past.

Maybe there should be a thread. Shit cities we’ve known.
Pristina as a starter for ten!
 
Anyone else notice that Macron is looking more and more like uncle Sam's contact point across the pond after yesterday's performance.

Whilst the UK indulges itself in this utterly asinine waste of time our influence is being diminished on the world stage, lobbing a few missiles into Syria excepted
I promised to post this on Tuesday, sorry lads. Well worth a read

Sidelined: Germany's Incredibly Shrinking Role on the World Stage - SPIEGEL ONLINE - International
 

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