Brexit Phase Two - Trade

Do I take it then, that the EU actually wants to retain control by forcing UK into some "customs union" that inhibits UKs freedom of manoeuvre, keeps the shekels rolling in, and protects against the very real prospect of UK undercutting the EU on a whole range of issues?

Interesting that this issue comes up as the hands in the socks push the HOC and HOL useful idiots towards meaningless (in the sense that it is not for UK to decide unilaterally) but damaging debate on the whole issue. Looks like a coordinated effort by those with vested interests and those who despise democracy to me.

Excellent. Reasons enough to tell them to bog off.
 
Cliff rather misses the point. There is another option - and that is a hard border blamed fairly and squarely at the feet of the EU.

There must have been a reasonably comprehensive UK plan for an alternative solution because it took the EU 5 days to go through it and (eventually) reject it.

So, people of Ireland, stand by to stand by.
Hmmm, is five days in the world of umpteen translations and leisurely wine-fulled lunch breaks really that long? You need to adjust your parameters of expectation when dealing with the EU.
 
Hmmm, is five days in the world of umpteen translations and leisurely wine-fulled lunch breaks really that long? You need to adjust your parameters of expectation when dealing with the EU.
On a more serious note I find the response from the EU to be rather contemptible - sitting there in "computer says no" mode smacks of exactly the sort of attitude that got us to this point in the first place.
 
If the UK dropped all import tariffs post brexit that map would change dramatically.

Economists have argued for decades that tariffs are unfair and unproductive. They exist to protect inefficient industries.

With zero tariffs and an increased consumption tax to make up the shortfall, the UK would be a free trade zone on the edge of the EU, with an open border via Ireland. Good would surge in tariff free, and be redirected from Ireland into mainland EU.

The EU would have no option but to man the border and stop the flow of tax free goods. The EU or Ireland would have to pay for the border, police it, and put up with the political problems of dividing Ireland. The UK could shrug its shoulders (French style) and say “ not our problem, we are just implementing 21C economic policies that benefit our citizens. If yo don’t want the goods going into the EU it’s your problem”

The UK free trade zone would terrify the EU, and the UK economy would boom, just as Singapore and Hong Kong did when they introduced free trade.

Make no mistake, the EU tariffs exist only to protect inefficient production in the EU - which is what it was created to do. Going free trade UK (call it FTUK) would plunge a knife deep into the heart of the EU.

Even threatening to do it would cause heart attacks in some areas.
 
If the UK dropped all import tariffs post brexit that map would change dramatically.

Economists have argued for decades that tariffs are unfair and unproductive. They exist to protect inefficient industries.

With zero tariffs and an increased consumption tax to make up the shortfall, the UK would be a free trade zone on the edge of the EU, with an open border via Ireland. Good would surge in tariff free, and be redirected from Ireland into mainland EU.

The EU would have no option but to man the border and stop the flow of tax free goods. The EU or Ireland would have to pay for the border, police it, and put up with the political problems of dividing Ireland. The UK could shrug its shoulders (French style) and say “ not our problem, we are just implementing 21C economic policies that benefit our citizens. If yo don’t want the goods going into the EU it’s your problem”

The UK free trade zone would terrify the EU, and the UK economy would boom, just as Singapore and Hong Kong did when they introduced free trade.

Make no mistake, the EU tariffs exist only to protect inefficient production in the EU - which is what it was created to do. Going free trade UK (call it FTUK) would plunge a knife deep into the heart of the EU.

Even threatening to do it would cause heart attacks in some areas.
Which is exactly why they want UK corralled into some sort of customs union arrangement.

Even this chap writing in the Guardian thinks it would be a bad move (for UK)

Staying in the EU customs union after Brexit would be disastrous for Britain | Henry Newman
 
If the UK dropped all import tariffs post brexit that map would change dramatically.

Economists have argued for decades that tariffs are unfair and unproductive. They exist to protect inefficient industries.

With zero tariffs and an increased consumption tax to make up the shortfall, the UK would be a free trade zone on the edge of the EU, with an open border via Ireland. Good would surge in tariff free, and be redirected from Ireland into mainland EU.

The EU would have no option but to man the border and stop the flow of tax free goods. The EU or Ireland would have to pay for the border, police it, and put up with the political problems of dividing Ireland. The UK could shrug its shoulders (French style) and say “ not our problem, we are just implementing 21C economic policies that benefit our citizens. If yo don’t want the goods going into the EU it’s your problem”

The UK free trade zone would terrify the EU, and the UK economy would boom, just as Singapore and Hong Kong did when they introduced free trade.

Make no mistake, the EU tariffs exist only to protect inefficient production in the EU - which is what it was created to do. Going free trade UK (call it FTUK) would plunge a knife deep into the heart of the EU.

Even threatening to do it would cause heart attacks in some areas.
How interesting. One hopes that May would have the gumption to pull this trick off, but I somewhat doubt it. I really cannot understand how she can stand up to and get many other nations onside with her stance on Russia whilst she seems so craven vis a vis the EU.
 

seaweed

LE
Book Reviewer
Not only that, @bumhole, but out of the EU we are bound by the 1922 setup plus or minus anything agreed bilaterally with the RoI since then. If the EU want controls they should make their own arrangement with and WITHIN the RoI, so that it is clearly seen that we are not to blame for screwing the Republic (fun though that would be - the UK owes it NOTHING - it has been nothing but trouble since 1170-ish).
 
How interesting. One hopes that May would have the gumption to pull this trick off, but I somewhat doubt it. I really cannot understand how she can stand up to and get many other nations onside with her stance on Russia whilst she seems so craven vis a vis the EU.
There is virtually no argument against free trade. Last time I looked around 90% of economists agreed that free trade was beneficial to everyone and should be introduced.

Of course it’s not only tariffs, you also have to deal with insidious trade restrictions “all cigarettes imported to France have to play music when smoked or other such tripe”. The Japanese refused to allow Raleigh to sell push bikes in Japan unless they were test ridden by a Japanese cycling Olympic gold medallist (I kid you not) - there were no Japanese cycling Olympic gold medalists and it took Raleigh years to get into Japan....

But you can get round such rubbish.

Lift vat by a few percent and you could do away with import tariffs totally.
 
Not only that, @bumhole.. the UK owes it NOTHING - it has been nothing but trouble since 1170-ish).
Careful there old man. That is a bit like saying that fire only became annoying once I stuck my hand in it!
 
If the UK dropped all import tariffs post brexit that map would change dramatically.

Economists have argued for decades that tariffs are unfair and unproductive. They exist to protect inefficient industries.

With zero tariffs and an increased consumption tax to make up the shortfall, the UK would be a free trade zone on the edge of the EU, with an open border via Ireland. Good would surge in tariff free, and be redirected from Ireland into mainland EU.

The EU would have no option but to man the border and stop the flow of tax free goods. The EU or Ireland would have to pay for the border, police it, and put up with the political problems of dividing Ireland. The UK could shrug its shoulders (French style) and say “ not our problem, we are just implementing 21C economic policies that benefit our citizens. If yo don’t want the goods going into the EU it’s your problem”

The UK free trade zone would terrify the EU, and the UK economy would boom, just as Singapore and Hong Kong did when they introduced free trade.

Make no mistake, the EU tariffs exist only to protect inefficient production in the EU - which is what it was created to do. Going free trade UK (call it FTUK) would plunge a knife deep into the heart of the EU.

Even threatening to do it would cause heart attacks in some areas.
You mean Britain becomes one huge Freeport-no reason why not
 
Cliff rather misses the point. There is another option - and that is a hard border with blame laid fairly and squarely at the feet of the EU.

There must have been a reasonably comprehensive UK plan for an alternative solution because it took the EU 5 days to go through it and (eventually) reject it.

So, people of Ireland, stand by to stand by.
The whole world is laughing at the UK for causing the border issue and potentially derailing the GFA because we haven't come up with a plan beyond some unicorn based tech border.

If we crashed out, you do realise that we would be required to have border controls to trade under WTO rules, do you?

The border issue has been caused by the UK and it's up to the government to come up with a solution
 

Auld-Yin

ADC
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Reviews Editor
The whole world is laughing at the UK for causing the border issue and potentially derailing the GFA because we haven't come up with a plan beyond some unicorn based tech border.

If we crashed out, you do realise that we would be required to have border controls to trade under WTO rules, do you?

The border issue has been caused by the UK and it's up to the government to come up with a solution
No we don't, there are other ways, but as you only spout EU propaganda then this will have flown right by you!

This article, which is certainly not pro brexit, explains how things could work. The EU would have to put up borders but the UK could, if they so decided, ignore them.

FactCheck: What are the options for the Irish border after Brexit?

We live in interesting times.
 
Do I take it then, that the EU actually wants to retain control by forcing UK into some "customs union" that inhibits UKs freedom of manoeuvre, keeps the shekels rolling in, and protects against the very real prospect of UK undercutting the EU on a whole range of issues?

Interesting that this issue comes up as the hands in the socks push the HOC and HOL useful idiots towards meaningless (in the sense that it is not for UK to decide unilaterally) but damaging debate on the whole issue. Looks like a coordinated effort by those with vested interests and those who despise democracy to me.

Excellent. Reasons enough to tell them to bog off.
This is what happens when you set yourself up as a competitor with the behemoth on our doorstep.

Perhaps if the government prepared for brexit then we'd have a better bargaining position.

We'll be in a customs union in name only and it'll be branded as a deep and special, ambitious customs arrangement etc

I'll be happy with that.

Then it'll be a question of sorting out the single market in name only.

Of course the ERG swivel eyed nutters might try to bring arch remainer PMTM, but could end up bringing down the entire conservative party in a chaotic orgy of bloodletting.

However, that could open the door to JC, JMc and Abbott...

Personally, I don't think that enough Tories are prepared to risk it
 
I've no doubt the Germany imports a large percentage of goods from the Baltics, Greeks and SE Europe, making them true trading partners, not a customer - vendor relationship.
It imports shit loads from us. You could always look at the data.
 
Cliff rather misses the point. There is another option - and that is a hard border with blame laid fairly and squarely at the feet of the EU.

There must have been a reasonably comprehensive UK plan for an alternative solution because it took the EU 5 days to go through it and (eventually) reject it.

So, people of Ireland, stand by to stand by.
We are creating the border. That's it. Unless you can get the EU to implement fundamental treaty change to satisfy our needs.
 

Auld-Yin

ADC
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Reviews Editor
This is what happens when you set yourself up as a competitor with the behemoth on our doorstep.

Perhaps if the government prepared for brexit then we'd have a better bargaining position.

We'll be in a customs union in name only and it'll be branded as a deep and special, ambitious customs arrangement etc

I'll be happy with that.

Then it'll be a question of sorting out the single market in name only.

Of course the ERG swivel eyed nutters might try to bring arch remainer PMTM, but could end up bringing down the entire conservative party in a chaotic orgy of bloodletting.

However, that could open the door to JC, JMc and Abbott...

Personally, I don't think that enough Tories are prepared to risk it
Stop posting this pish, the repetitiveness is becoming exceedingly boring!
 
There is virtually no argument against free trade. Last time I looked around 90% of economists agreed that free trade was beneficial to everyone and should be introduced.

Of course it’s not only tariffs, you also have to deal with insidious trade restrictions “all cigarettes imported to France have to play music when smoked or other such tripe”. The Japanese refused to allow Raleigh to sell push bikes in Japan unless they were test ridden by a Japanese cycling Olympic gold medallist (I kid you not) - there were no Japanese cycling Olympic gold medalists and it took Raleigh years to get into Japan....

But you can get round such rubbish.

Lift vat by a few percent and you could do away with import tariffs totally.
The argument against it is "Make America Great Again."
 

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