Brexit Phase Two - Trade

That’s what I said. And now for the foreseeable future we aren’t. As for the unforseeable future I’ll leave that to others, but I suspect we’ll be getting even less money for our money. Not to mention having absolutely no say in what’s going on.

And people voted for it. Well they say they knew what they were voting for,.i have my doubts.
It follows that as the EU has to cut it's cloth the farming community has to make a choice. I have always been quite clear that food is top priority, so we have to pay more if required, but it does leave less disposable income for the flashier bits such as cars. Given that middlemen are all getting their rake, there will be less need for them and a lot of people are going to have to loose that sense of entitlement, that they're owed an income. We have 7 Billion people on this planet an rising so something will have to change. If farmers can't produce the yield then it'll drop. But for farmers to demand little change to the CAP regimes because it costs 3 Billion a year, then it's basically a subsidy to ensure no one goes out of business and probably misdirected from the kind of farming we need.
 
Your decision to sacrifice frogs is not democracy, nor is a vote that all patients must be treated by such methods. Brexit is an absurd vote for frog murder that affects everyone, not just the deluded mongs. It's a flaw in the system...like the one that put Trump into power.
No it's not democracy, which is why discussion about my care is a coloured fish. Democracy is not about what experts think and it's not about what self selected elites think and it's not about economics. Its about decision making on issues that affect everybody, so everybody gets an equal say.

A close vote is not, I think a 'good' decision objectively, as it leaves half of an electorate dissatisfied, which is why I would favour a qualified majority of 75% to win the day. The best decision, objectively, is a unanimous decision, for it cannot be wrong. its consequences might be detrimental to the society but as a decision, it's perfect.

A close decision gives excess power to a small group, who can sway the vote..

Brexit is an absurd vote for some but not for a majority of the electorate.

You seem to want a democracy that works to give the results that you think are right. I want a democracy that works to give the results that the majority want, regardless of what I think is right.

In all honesty, the result is meaningless to me; I'm pleased that I was able to partake in an exercise of direct democracy, to me the purest form of democracy. To take part in a vote of self determination, such as we were denied over the Lisbon Treaty. I would have no problem with being on the losing side.
 
Awaits dullard replies....
Well this was well known before the referendum. So why did all the Brexit Loons vote to kill all civil aviation inthe UK for a decade? (and most UK trade with it) That is what they did if they did, as most maintain, knew what the4y were voting for. There is no Plan B for this.

As pointed out we can't leave the ECJ. UKPLC is also demanding we stay in the Single market and customers union. The majority of the UK want to stay in the EU*. Time to cancel brexit.

*Yes the majority now wants to stay in.... if you don't believe me ask them before we have a GE and Corbyn gets in. Don'r come the bollox about the referendum 2 years ago.... a lot of the Brexiteers didn't have a clue what they were voting for. Now they do they don't want it.

The Vote on the referendum deal will prove that.
 

Joker62

ADC
Book Reviewer
Realky? No more flights for a decade?
Yes and that is an optimistic guess. I have to take part in meetings that involve senior people from the CAA. What they are saying privately is that it will take at least a decade (with a hell of a lot of investment and resources*) for the CAA to get up to the the required level under international law and then do the agreements with the other aviation authorities. that is why the CAA has repeatedly said there is no plan B.

*When we loose the money we pay top the EU for admin and eurocrats you will find the cost to the UK of replicating the admin and civil servants we will need will cost us a LOT more than we pay the UK... another net loss on Brexit.

The FAA has said it will license some Civil aviations suppliers so they can still supply US airlines. This helps the USA and effectually puts put of the UK aerospace industry under US control.

Even if by some unforeseen miracle a solution is found that takes a year or two Dublin, Paris and Amsterdam will take up the *business* flight slack and UK industry will move accordingly. IT will be a one way move.

So either we stay in EASA and therefore the ECJ or it will kill UKPLC in a matter of weeks. That is a matter of fact.

The rest of the world (and the EU) know this and the UK is over barrel. Much the same as we are fro the single market and the customs union.

The UK had bugger all bargaining power in this Brexit will damage the EU but it will fatally wound the UK.

So either the Brexiteers were stupid or they didn't understand what they were voting for. There isn't a third option. In any case the majority of the UK is now pro remain. Don't believe me? Ask them. (and don't trot out a vote from a couple of years ago where the loons voted for something imaginary)
 
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Brexit will damage the EU but it will fatally wound the UK.

So either the Brexiteers were stupid or they didn't understand what they were voting for. There isn't a third option. In any case the majority of the UK is now pro remain. Don't believe me? Ask them. (and don't trot out a vote from a couple of years ago where the loons voted for something imaginary)
First point. I call BS. It will not "fatally wound the UK". Steps will need to be taken to keep a transitional arrangement in place till the CAA pulls its finger out.

As for the second sentiment ("ask them") I think I have to call BS on that too.

Third point, calling those with an alternative view "loons" does little for you. If that is the attitude that you are taking into meetings with those other folks from the CAA then no wonder that organisation (which, by the way, has had 3 years so far to come up with a plan B) is in in such a tizz.
 
Well this was well known before the referendum. So why did all the Brexit Loons vote to kill all civil aviation inthe UK for a decade? (and most UK trade with it) That is what they did if they did, as most maintain, knew what the4y were voting for. There is no Plan B for this.

As pointed out we can't leave the ECJ. UKPLC is also demanding we stay in the Single market and customers union. The majority of the UK want to stay in the EU*. Time to cancel brexit.

*Yes the majority now wants to stay in.... if you don't believe me ask them before we have a GE and Corbyn gets in. Don'r come the bollox about the referendum 2 years ago.... a lot of the Brexiteers didn't have a clue what they were voting for. Now they do they don't want it.

The Vote on the referendum deal will prove that.
If you really believe the majority want to stay in, then the Tories should get a landslide with all the votes for the arch remainer May

Corbyn life long pro Brexit stance should be a death knell for Labour if you're right
 
Well this was well known before the referendum. So why did all the Brexit Loons vote to kill all civil aviation inthe UK for a decade?
Ryanair. Need I say any more?


(and most UK trade with it)
We are self sufficient in Werthers Originals, denture fixative and batteries for mobility scooters. What do we need trade for?


As pointed out we can't leave the ECJ.
Want a bet?


The Vote on the referendum deal will prove that.
Any vote on the deal whether in Parliament or by another referendum will be a choice between accepting the deal or going for WTO trade rules. As far as I know, neither Labour nor the Tories are planning another in/out referendum.

I have to go. Apparently Donald reads arrse and my name is now on a list.

 

skid2

LE
Book Reviewer
so what you're saying is that, really, those who voted to take us into the EUSSR in the first place didn't know what they were voting for.
EUSSR wildly amusing. Considering where we came from pre membership. If leaving guaranteed similar growth I could see the point of it.

But constant references to ‘bumpy rides, difficult times and the most laughable one of all, if we all pull together’. It’ll be fine.
 
Only a fool would refuse the treatment specified by qualified professionals in the field. As the fools who ignored advice from the Prime Minister of a democratically elected government.
Ironic then that you wish to rely on "qualified professionals", Thornberry, Ummuna, Abbott, Corybn et al to reverse the mong decision or even more ironic that you rely on the mongs to unmong themselves in a further referendum or election where the subject is to complicated for democracy to decide. If only we had a special little God particle to decide for us. I think that you do believe that there is an all powerful deity after all.
 
so what you're saying is that, really, those who voted to take us into the EUSSR in the first place didn't know what they were voting for.
Oh they did. It's called aSinecure. Nothing to do and all day to do it in with pay and perks. It was of course a gradual process. The point is that the process was seen as irreversible and then we had Lisbon. We've noted of course that all the fine words and regulations about protection and about justice mean absolutely nothing. They're very carefully worded to ensure that vested interests don't lose out.
 
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