Brexit Phase Two - Trade

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Unlike David Davis, Gove has got his teeth into the job.

The need for the UK to apply some import tariffs to agriculture has been obvious from the start. Every country is ultimately forced to do this. Fantasists on this thread think otherwise.
Modified that for you slightly. For example waste destined for animal feed but not the raw for human consumption and that dependent on what we produce. The other is seasonal dependent on glut or dearth. Nor do I expect fundamental changes to procedures whether we are in CAP or not, i.e animal health. There will be no major drop in costs.
 
We’ve been hearing this pish for quite sometime froM
Project fear
It's already happened, those roles will not move back from Dublin or Paris
Don’t let facts get in the way of One of gracs rants.

There’s going to be a vocal minority who still think we should stay in the E.U. who will react badly when their predictions of doom and gloom haven’t come true
Do you know what a rant is? Who said anything about staying in the EU? How about not shooting ourselves in the foot as we leave?
 
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I was reading that the UK had lost a lot of ability and expertise to prepare live cattle after the BSE fiasco. Hence it has become cheaper to export live cattle to processing plants in other countries for preparation.
I'd have thought this would have been overcome by now but it seems to still be the case.
Also impacted sheep meat after the foot and mouth bit in the early 2000s according to a British meat industry publication.
expertise costs money the fact that money is saved because someone else does it cheaper does not mean the expertise is lost. Moreover the safety element in the EU Cap inspections scheme is not foolproof. Look we have approved inspectors, their stamps are approved by the EU. the Inspectors check the stamps not the always the carcasses and tick the boxes. Vets know what they are looking for if they are requested to do so, that's a function of of Port Health. The big biggest problem is that meat is perishable and must move relatively fast for clearance and factories are subject to periodic inspection, not continuous. It's more to do with volume and the ability to secure rather than anything else.
 
For every fib you tell a job moves overseas, that's an awful lot of jobs Needy Guy.

Cities across the Continent have been vying for a piece of an industry that represents about 7 percent of Britain’s gross domestic product and more than a million jobs there.

Frankfurt, Paris, Dublin and Luxembourg will be the first to secure new business as financial services companies gauge how profitable London remains. In the next months, these cities, along with Madrid and Milan, will find more traders, compliance teams, human resource managers and technology workers in their midst. Amsterdam will become home to more European markets.

For Wall Street Banks in London, It’s Moving Time
I gave you a funny cos the same arguments happened 20 years ago, just as the EU got uppity about Money Laundering, you may may remember that. In practice the US has been much more proactive in that field, you have only have to look at the prosecution rates in the US. All we have is Banks looking for Tax breaks and setting up offices is one of them as suits. Dublin? No one mentioned Rome,Athens now that is funny.
 
I gave you a funny cos the same arguments happened 20 years ago, just as the EU got uppity about Money Laundering, you may may remember that. In practice the US has been much more proactive in that field, you have only have to look at the prosecution rates in the US. All we have is Banks looking for Tax breaks and setting up offices is one of them as suits. Dublin? No one mentioned Rome,Athens now that is funny.

Any Bank that's moving to Dublin for the tax fiddles may be in for a very big shock in the not too distant future
 
We have?
Why haven't we noticed this over the last 46 yeas?
The truth is that we have done rather well out of the EU for the past 40 years, largely because the post-Thatcher UK economy was significantly more agile than the European model, which is handicapped by the protective, restrictive practices we abandoned in the 1980's. We could until now more-or-less cherry-pick our participation, despite the marginal irritations brought about by collective EU tariffs etc.

But this era was ending. Ever more handicapped by 1970's structures (plus the burden of new members with a net drain on the exchequer), the EU has pushed for closer political union in order to preserve those practices that are in fact no longer fit for purpose (as we discovered 40 years ago). We were reaching a point (somewhat akin to the US colonies in the 1770s) where continued participation would slowly strangle our own growth.

Ideally, the UK pre-BREXIT position would have had support in Europe, but sadly it did not. What we perhaps miss over here is the way in which the membership of the collective enables European countries to paper over yawning gaps that would otherwise require socially destabilizing fixes. France and Germany were able to preserve restrictive practices, Spain and Eastern Europe were able to export their surplus labour, and so on.

In the absence of serious EU structural reform, we would always have had to leave at some point....
 
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The truth is that we have done rather well out of the EU for the past 40 years, largely because the post-Thatcher UK economy was significantly more agile than the European model, which is handicapped by the protective, restrictive practices we abandoned in the 1980's. We could until now more-or-less cherry-pick our participation, despite the marginal irritations brought about by collective EU tariffs etc.

But this era was ending. Ever more handicapped by 1970's structures (plus the burden of new members with a net drain on the exchequer), the EU has pushed for closer political union in order to preserve those practices that are in fact no longer fit for purpose (as we discovered 40 years ago). We were reaching a point (somewhat akin to the US colonies in the 1770s) where continued participation would slowly strangle our own growth.

Ideally, the UK pre-BREXIT position would have had support in Europe, but sadly it did not. What we perhaps miss over here is the way in which the membership of the collective enables European countries to paper over yawning gaps that would otherwise require agonizing fixes. France and Germany were able to preserve restrictive practices, Spain and Eastern Europe were able to export their surplus labour, and so on.

In the absence of serious EU structural reform, we would always have had to leave at some point....
And arguably, we could have done far better outwit the EU.
Look at the Working Time Directive… great for bone idle continentals in their still huge state subsidised and state funded economies, bad for our economy.
Had the pleasure of working for a bit in the German bit of an American firm - the minute the clock struck 35 hours - and they were gone like little Tutonic Cinderallas while the Anglos cracked on.

In may ways, the EU is like the UK in the mid 70's - lazy, dependent on State largesse, and sticking it's fingers in its ears as the world powers had humming ooohlala, je suis can't hear you.

The growth figures say it all US/UK - 44% growth in a decade, the EU? Just 26%
 
And arguably, we could have done far better outwit the EU.
Look at the Working Time Directive… great for bone idle continentals in their still huge state subsidised and state funded economies, bad for our economy.
Had the pleasure of working for a bit in the German bit of an American firm - the minute the clock struck 35 hours - and they were gone like little Tutonic Cinderallas while the Anglos cracked on.

In may ways, the EU is like the UK in the mid 70's - lazy, dependent on State largesse, and sticking it's fingers in its ears as the world powers had humming ooohlala, je suis can't hear you.

The growth figures say it all US/UK - 44% growth in a decade, the EU? Just 26%
You? Talking about productivity?

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahaha...
 

Wordsmith

LE
Book Reviewer
Only if she doesn't have a raft of tory defections ? if she tries to push through no deal, then she could lose far more MPs than you seem to realise.
A valid point. And I suspect Soubry for one will jump before her local party push her.

But given that the Toy MP's that might jump ship are ideologically a long way part from the Labour MP's, with the odd exception, I don't see many Tory MP's moving to the Independent Group.

In addition, the Tory party is split over a single issue - Brexit. That will go largely away in a month's time.

The Labour party has a far worse problem - it is in the grip of the hard left and the hard left is steadily tightening their grip on power. As such, I think even more moderate Labour MP's are going to jump ship in the coming weeks, further reducing the odds Tory MP's will join a Labour dominated group.

As I've said before, even if half a dozen Tory MP's jump ship and stop Brexit, Brexit can only be stopped by all the opposition parties colluding to do so. And May will them promptly call a GE on the grounds that the opposition MP's are thwarting the result of a free and fair referendum and only the Tory party is wiling to respect the result of the referendum. Fought on those grounds, I suspect she'd win a working majority.

Finally, I suspect the general attitude of any Tory MP's thinking about jumping ship will be 'wait and see'. Firstly, they'll want to see if Labour tears itself to bits - which would guarantee another Tory term in office and their continuation in their seats.

Secondly, if they jump ship and precipitate a GE, they'll be opposed by an official Tory candidate with every prospect of losing their seats. Which is why I think they will talk a lot and do little.

Wordsmith
 
Yes, you have. I don't think it remarkable, I've told you that before.
You're the one who keeps saying it.

What’s the claimed the achievement then? I think the disagreement over semantics may come down to our relative circumstances. To me it’s normal, so I don’t see it as remarkable. To you, well I can see why it must be extraordinary.
 
The truth is that we have done rather well out of the EU for the past 40 years, largely because the post-Thatcher UK economy was significantly more agile than the European model, which is handicapped by the protective, restrictive practices we abandoned in the 1980's. We could until now more-or-less cherry-pick our participation, despite the marginal irritations brought about by collective EU tariffs etc.

But this era was ending. Ever more handicapped by 1970's structures (plus the burden of new members with a net drain on the exchequer), the EU has pushed for closer political union in order to preserve those practices that are in fact no longer fit for purpose (as we discovered 40 years ago). We were reaching a point (somewhat akin to the US colonies in the 1770s) where continued participation would slowly strangle our own growth.rowth

Ideally, the UK pre-BREXIT position would have had support in Europe, but sadly it did not. What we perhaps miss over here is the way in which the membership of the collective enables European countries to paper over yawning gaps that would otherwise require agonizing fixes. France and Germany were able to preserve restrictive practices, Spain and Eastern Europe were able to export their surplus labour, and so on.

In the absence of serious EU structural reform, we would always have had to leave at some point....
The most glaring omission from that was the fact that we would have had to join the Euro at some point, the EU would have demanded it. That would have led to a wholesale diminuition of London as a financial centre. The strength of the the US breakaway in the 1770's was the growth of New York as a financial centre. London is now stuck in the middle. Frankfurt and Paris and ultimately Brussels want us gone.
 
And arguably, we could have done far better outwit the EU.
Look at the Working Time Directive… great for bone idle continentals in their still huge state subsidised and state funded economies, bad for our economy.
Had the pleasure of working for a bit in the German bit of an American firm - the minute the clock struck 35 hours - and they were gone like little Tutonic Cinderallas while the Anglos cracked on.

In may ways, the EU is like the UK in the mid 70's - lazy, dependent on State largesse, and sticking it's fingers in its ears as the world powers had humming ooohlala, je suis can't hear you.

The growth figures say it all US/UK - 44% growth in a decade, the EU? Just 26%
Agree, although on the first point we probably needed some time within the European markets to allow our own economic reforms to stabilize and whilst we attracted replacement business; which was one of the main reasons that Margaret Thatcher embraced the EU at the start.

Later, as she realised the limits on Britain's ability to modify the direction Brussels was taking, she became steadily more disillusioned with it.
 
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