Brexit Phase Two - Trade

There isn't a "national barriers to trade" part of it.
But there is, that's the whole point of the tariff differentials which the EU is propounding and what is more it pretends to control the making of deals. Christ on a crutch if it's taken them 10 years to make a deal that is applicable across the whole EU and that can't be changed for another 15 or so where is the advantage for smaller countries in terms of flexibility?
 
The No Deal Brexit is a minority view, not shared by Parliament, Business, or the majority of the public.
I congratulate you on your omnipotence in knowing what all the above think.

For example, all the parties in Parliament have a hidden agenda and a public agenda. We hear the pubic agenda - who knows what private agenda the varying party leaderships are pursuing.

As far as business is concerned, the one that are shouting loudest are the multinationals. Most business are silent. There are 5.7 million business in the UK

https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN06152/SN06152.pdf

I doubt we've heard the views of more than 1% - 2%. Don't conflate volume of noise with underlying opinion

Similarly, were you to ask the public in an opinion poll:
The EU have maneuvered the UK into a position where no agreement is possible. We can either exit the EU without a deal or remain trapped within the EU. What's your choice?
Pose a question of that nature - loaded but very close to the actual situation - and I suspect most of the public would say 'exit'.

Wordsmith
 

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Are they actually serious with the pay or taking the piss, literally? You can be bar staff or a shop assistant and get more.
It's across the board generally when comparing like-for-like roles. I work for a major defence contractor; the project I am on requires very close liaison with CS from the MOD's Defence Equipment and Support organisation at Abbey Wood. Having spoken to lots of them it is very clear that industry pays significantly more.

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The UK gov are also asking for PhDs to work as statisticians ... Starting on 25k a year in Edinburgh (and 28k for the next level up). One of my old lab mates left academia after his PhD and was on 50k after 9 months, crunching numbers for one of the gambling companies. A year or so after that he was contracting for 300 a day for banks and the like. Even the NHS pay 30-32k starting salary when recruiting PhDs for that role. No idea how they expect to recruit people when they are paying far below industry rates and even around 8-12k less than academia (and at least in academia you are free to set you own schedule, including where you work, and set your own projects etc).
A graduate engineer trainee with a bachelors degree typically can expect £25k/annum.

The same for a PhD sounds dire
 
That is f-ing crazy. Why would anyone want to even go into this role? There are literally a zillion positions out there which pay way way more than this for someone with this background.

Sometimes, the UK, for all it's "advanced OECD" country status does seem so backward for STEM people. I mean I have friends who are just graduating from Uni in the U.S discussing which 80/90k+ offer they should be taking.
What happens when you compare similar roles in the US; government v industry/academia?

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The UK gov are also asking for PhDs to work as statisticians ... Starting on 25k a year in Edinburgh (and 28k for the next level up). One of my old lab mates left academia after his PhD and was on 50k after 9 months, crunching numbers for one of the gambling companies. A year or so after that he was contracting for 300 a day for banks and the like. Even the NHS pay 30-32k starting salary when recruiting PhDs for that role. No idea how they expect to recruit people when they are paying far below industry rates and even around 8-12k less than academia (and at least in academia you are free to set you own schedule, including where you work, and set your own projects etc).
This is the direct result of eight years of 'austerity' and 1% pay rises.
 
We are going over old ground.

That binary choice was not defined. What you believed it to be was what you believed it to be, nothing more.

It couldn't be defined because there was no plan. Wordsmith keeps reminding us of this, and the fact that there was no responsibility on the Leave campaign to formulate a plan. TBF, he has also consistently stated that vote remain was also ill defined, as the EU is evolving.

Given the above, there are umpteen ways of defining Brexit. TM's way is one, so is JC's, and Sturgeon's is another. You may not like the WA, but that is an opinion, to say it is not a form of Brexit is factually incorrect. Similarly to describe other Brexiteers as Remainers, because they hold a different view
Is silly dogma.

The No Deal Brexit is a minority view, not shared by Parliament, Business, or the majority of the public.

The Scottish referendum had the SNP plan for independence including the following; keeping the £, keeping the Bank of England, open border with rest of UK, frictionless trade with UK, freedom of movement with UK, and staying in the EU.

Try telling the SNP that they are really Unionists trying to thwart Independence.

One man's meat is another man's poison!

Apologies for an over long post.
Don't forget that the binary wording of the question on the ballot paper was endorsed by Parliament.

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The new sock on the block seems to have picked up Tiresome Tech's habit of very early permasending with several nonsensical posts which have obviously kept him up all night.
Wonder if there's a hint there somewhere?
I think it's biffster
 
This is the direct result of eight years of 'austerity' and 1% pay rises.
The new crop of bright young things are utterly dire. Paying peanuts now means only monkeys apply.

The new C2 on my block. 25, got her Masters, used to work in a lab as an intern in analysis.
Got the intellect of an amoeba and the life skills of a toddler... Thats not fair! is her clarion cry as the people who do actual work walk all over her and ignore her attempts at being a 'Manager'. 25 year old first job snowflake meets 50+ year old career uncivil servants...comedy ensues
'But I'm in charge!
'Who are you trying to convince, me or yourself?
 
Don't forget that the binary wording of the question on the ballot paper was endorsed by Parliament.
The wording on the ballot paper was specified by the electoral commission.

The electoral commission would also specify the question on the 'people's ballot'. As such loaded questions that gave an advantage to Remain (or Leave) would not be allowed.

For example, the commission would not allow a three question ballot paper:
  • Do you wish to remain in the EU
  • Do you wish to leave the EU only if terms can be agreed with the EU
  • Do you wish to leave the EU without a deal
as as it intrinsically favoured 'Remain options'.

The people's Ballot question would essentially still pose the same question as before: stay in the EU/leave the EU. And given way the EU has behaved in the negotiations - which has even annoyed some Remain supporting friends of mine - I suspect it would still deliver an 'Out' vote.

Wordsmith
 
The new crop of bright young things are utterly dire. Paying peanuts now means only monkeys apply.

The new C2 on my block. 25, got her Masters, used to work in a lab as an intern in analysis.
Got the intellect of an amoeba and the life skills of a toddler... Thats not fair! is her clarion cry as the people who do actual work walk all over her and ignore her attempts at being a 'Manager'. 25 year old first job snowflake meets 50+ year old career uncivil servants...comedy ensues
'But I'm in charge!
'Who are you trying to convince, me or yourself?
Sounds like a toxic environment full of unhelpful seniors unwilling to train and mentor her.

I feel sorry for her frankly.
 
Well so much for Govt Policy promoting a financial advantage to those who've been to university. What it boils down to is Government taking up the slack on over qualification, whilst a selected few within the system get the top bean counting jobs. And it's not as if we haven't been here before with the intern debate. Of course if they took a job at less than 21/22K they'd never have to pay back the loan. In the meantime people like me (ably supported [not] BY the unions:rolleyes:) were pushed to the back whilst the abler uni grads got the fast track only to be got out of the doodoo by people like me. That's not a moan, that's a fact.


Of course it shouldn't stop people going to universities if there is a percieved advantage, but that shouldn't be touted as earnings capability or job a satisfaction.

Its not over qualification - they want people with a specific, specialist skill, in fact several years of formal training in that skill and they are offering peanuts compared to what the private sector pays. So they will be at an advantage - just they need to work for somewhere like PWC or GSK rather than the CS.

Or example - McKinsey have many jobs in the same field. Many want PhDs. I doubt they start their grads on 22k and even if they do, they won’t stay on such low salary for long.

Search jobs | Careers | McKinsey & Company


The friend who was on 300 pounds a day actually applied for one of these roles too as he was naïve at the time. He didn’t get it, but as I said nine months later was earning as much as the principal statistician.

But his feedback was that the application process and interview process terrifying, but when the job was explained it was also using fairly low, unsophisticated techniques so not even that challenging/interesting.
 
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Sounds like a toxic environment full of unhelpful seniors unwilling to train and mentor her.

I feel sorry for her frankly.

Nope,

Its what happens when an organisation starts conflating high educational achievement with intelligence and ability.
The 'seniors' as you put it are the E1's and D's who've decades of experience and not overly impressed by an overqualified schoolgirl trying to tell them what to do.
 
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Nope,

Its what happens when an organisation starts conflating high educational achievement with intelligence and ability.
The 'seniors' you put it as the E1's and D's who've decades of experience and not overly impressed by an overqualified schoolgirl trying to tell them what to do.

Funny you say this - girlfriends mother is very senior in the HR world, and she told me the CS graduate scheme is considered to be one of the toughest schemes in the UK, and private sector employers hold those who pass it in high regard.
 

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