Brexit Phase Two - Trade

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I hadn't noticed you arguing any problems existed in the EU, prior to now. But it seems, you are finally moving position and I find that a nice thing to see.... If you extended that view marginally, towards actual conditions of continued membership (if the EU let you have your conditions), that may be an interesting exercise.

On s**tness; your on solid ground, as the pseudo-science of economics is in your favour and I see little point arguing one report to five of yours. I merely say, that it comes down to a trade off and I would suggest the benefits simply don't outweigh the negatives in anything but a remain versus no deal. A remain versus deal, its nothing like as clear cut.
I bow to the expert on pseudo-science, cod psychology and empty rhetoric.
 

Joker62

ADC
Book Reviewer
You made that up, didn't you?

Yes, UK has "said" it will guarantee the rights of EU citizens resident in UK in the event of no deal but (and here's the but) nothing has been put into law.
If the WA is agreed (as @irlsgt said) then the rights will be guaranteed.
If there's no deal, then several countries have already stated that the rights of UK citizens resident in their country will have their rights protected providing the UK agrees to reciprocal agreements.

French government has stated:

Until the rights of French nationals are guaranteed in law in the UK then France could in theory scrap its own contingency plan to guarantee the rights of Britons here.


The text of the bill reads that decrees could be taken that provide measures which grant British citizens in France "more favourable treatment" than people from other third countries (in other words non-EU member states).

BUT that would only happen if the British also give French nationals in the UK the equivalent status.

So that's France.
Here, in Spain, I have received a letter from my solicitor to say that my resident status will not be affected if there is no deal proving the UK agrees to reciprocal agreements for Spanish citizens living in Spain.

The Spanish government has also issued a statement which basically says if the WA goes through then no change will occur for British citizens already resident in Spain and that the Spanish government :
La Moncloa
The rights of British residents in Spain will be protected in the case that the UK agrees a reciprocal agreement on the status of Spanish residents resident in UK in the even of no deal taking place.

Both those countries above have said the same thing on:
The UK government has already guaranteed the rights of EU citizens in the UK even if there's no deal but nothing is written down in law.

So don't say the rights of EU citizens in UK will be protected until it is put into law.
And the fact that the couple of people you have spoken to have said there is no assurances flies in the face of official statements.
Until quite recently, I would have had faith in the word of a UK government to exercise the collective responsibility of parliament, with probity and all due diligence.
Now I have to admit that the behavior of the speaker, and several MPs, has undermined any faith I had in our sovereign representatives.

Their behavior, both individual and collective, has left me deeply saddened.
 
Until quite recently, I would have had faith in the word of a UK government to exercise the collective responsibility of parliament, with probity and all due diligence.
Now I have to admit that the behavior of the speaker, and several MPs, has undermined any faith I had in our sovereign representatives.

Their behavior, both individual and collective, has left me deeply saddened.
And yet there is little outcry. Presumably because the situation suits those who do not like democracy anyway.
 
Excuse the following long winded narratove, reference Boris speech to JCB. He made a reasonable speech at JCB as part of his 'repair mechanism' with the Tory backbenchers in anticipation of being hopeful of possible success in the next impending Tory leadership.

He said that the 'backstop' should be removed, which, as I have said before, is a 'red herring'. Alternatively, he would like a customs arrangement, which, obviously includes N, Ireland & would last until a new deal is agreed with the E.U.

The 'Flaw' with that idea is that the 'backstop' would simply be encompassed within that customs agreement, the duration of, which would last for a limited period (transition) until the 'new' deal takes effect.

It 'neutralises' the 'backstop' because N. Ireland would be included within that temporary customs arrangement & that it would apply equally across the whole of the U.K which is a DUP demand for acceptability.

That 'new' deal cannot include any of the E.U's '4 Freedoms', because that is what the E.U is, to do otherwise would be, both a betrayal of E.U founding principles & of the 'LEAVE' referendum vote. Putting everything aside, it really is worth listening to what Boris does say, NOT what he sounds like.

Possibility of such a deal mentioned above, with a legal period for when it would come into force, could be acceptable to 'leavers'. IF it was for a short period of 2 years ONLY, enforceable without parliamentary process being able to thwart it, by having the new Treaty approved in principle before negotiations commenced & backed by the current referendum result instruction to the government.

An 'alternative' way would be to negotiate a new deal post 'LEAVE' on 29 March, having a fixed period of current access,tarrif free, but no 'free movement' to non-resident U.K- E.U citizens, in order to make & enact that new deal within that 2 year fixed period.

Sent from my SM-T555 using Tapatalk
 
The thing is this deal that has taken 2 years to negotiate and fail.... is only supposed to last 2 years

And is supposed to give time to negotiate a long term FTA
look at the links to parts of the deal I posted. That's mostly not 2 years but from 4 to forever.
The "backstop" realy wasn't the worst part of an abysmal capitulation - one written by the EU, with the UK told "sign this".
 

Guns

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Seems the transition to WTO rules isn't even going well.

Taiwan objects to Britain's post-Brexit WTO services trade arrangement | Reuters

"GENEVA (Reuters) - Taiwan objects to Britain’s proposed rules for managing its trade in services after it leaves the European Union and has requested negotiations at the World Trade Organization, according to a document seen by Reuters on Wednesday.

Britain voted in a referendum in 2016 to leave the EU, which has spoken for Britain on trade matters ever since the WTO was founded in 1995. As part of the Brexit divorce, Britain needs its own WTO membership texts, known as schedules, to set out how it will treat its trading partners in goods and services.

Last month, Britain formally submitted its proposed new services schedule to the WTO. Trade Minister Liam Fox said the process would replicate existing arrangements as far as possible and was “only a technical exercise”.............."

Only a technical exercise.
 
Excuse the following long winded narratove, reference Boris speech to JCB. He made a reasonable speech at JCB as part of his 'repair mechanism' with the Tory backbenchers in anticipation of being hopeful of possible success in the next impending Tory leadership.

He said that the 'backstop' should be removed, which, as I have said before, is a 'red herring'. Alternatively, he would like a customs arrangement, which, obviously includes N, Ireland & would last until a new deal is agreed with the E.U.

The 'Flaw' with that idea is that the 'backstop' would simply be encompassed within that customs agreement, the duration of, which would last for a limited period (transition) until the 'new' deal takes effect.

It 'neutralises' the 'backstop' because N. Ireland would be included within that temporary customs arrangement & that it would apply equally across the whole of the U.K which is a DUP demand for acceptability.

That 'new' deal cannot include any of the E.U's '4 Freedoms', because that is what the E.U is, to do otherwise would be, both a betrayal of E.U founding principles & of the 'LEAVE' referendum vote. Putting everything aside, it really is worth listening to what Boris does say, NOT what he sounds like.

Possibility of such a deal mentioned above, with a legal period for when it would come into force, could be acceptable to 'leavers'. IF it was for a short period of 2 years ONLY, enforceable without parliamentary process being able to thwart it, by having the new Treaty approved in principle before negotiations commenced & backed by the current referendum result instruction to the government.

An 'alternative' way would be to negotiate a new deal post 'LEAVE' on 29 March, having a fixed period of current access,tarrif free, but no 'free movement' to non-resident U.K- E.U citizens, in order to make & enact that new deal within that 2 year fixed period.

Sent from my SM-T555 using Tapatalk
interestingly the beeb did not cover that story. I wonder if that was intentional, preferring that the news should be about the Beeb. They aught really to lose their funding.
 
Seems the transition to WTO rules isn't even going well.

Taiwan objects to Britain's post-Brexit WTO services trade arrangement | Reuters

"GENEVA (Reuters) - Taiwan objects to Britain’s proposed rules for managing its trade in services after it leaves the European Union and has requested negotiations at the World Trade Organization, according to a document seen by Reuters on Wednesday.

Britain voted in a referendum in 2016 to leave the EU, which has spoken for Britain on trade matters ever since the WTO was founded in 1995. As part of the Brexit divorce, Britain needs its own WTO membership texts, known as schedules, to set out how it will treat its trading partners in goods and services.

Last month, Britain formally submitted its proposed new services schedule to the WTO. Trade Minister Liam Fox said the process would replicate existing arrangements as far as possible and was “only a technical exercise”.............."

Only a technical exercise.
and who paid to rattle their cage?
 

Guns

ADC
Moderator
Book Reviewer
and who paid to rattle their cage?
I suspect they are concerned about their position within WTO and changes that other countries (China or US) might make that puts them at a disadvantage.
 
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