Brexit Phase Two - Trade

You remaINers are very concerned about the 'empire' aren't you.
They seem obsessed with blue passports too and I haven't met one brave Brexiteer that could give a flying fcuk what colour their passports were as long as that foul 'European Union' was removed from it's cover.
 
PMTM (or as I like to call her, Theresa [Quisling] May) has a long history of avoiding problems. She avoided problems in negotiating with the EU by essentially giving in to every demand.

However, in doing that, she was deferring a bigger problem - coming up with an agreement that would pass Westminster. And as such, she has created a fuster cluck she can't resolve. No amount of spin will whitewash the huge problems revealed by the Attorney General's legal advice.

May's long history of avoiding problems is coming back to haunt her - and will probably cost her the premiership.

Wordsmith
her nickname 'the submarine' wasn't given to her for nothing! I would add 'snake', 'liar', 'incompetent' etc
 
They seem obsessed with blue passports too and I haven't met one brave Brexiteer that could give a flying fcuk what colour their passports were as long as that foul 'European Union' was removed from it's cover.
Yeah, the problem with that statement is that Brexiteer politcos publicly identified themselves with the color and started waving that around and shouting "Freedom!"

I don't think that issue even came up before Nigel et al brought it up..just saying.
 
Yeah, the problem with that statement is that Brexiteer politcos publicly identified themselves with the color and started waving that around and shouting "Freedom!"

I don't think that issue even came up before Nigel et al brought it up..just saying.
It certainly distracted the remain voters:cool:
 

skid2

LE
Book Reviewer
If you frame the debate as you do, their is absolutely nothing we can do and thus remaining is the only solution.... To think that way, starts with defining our competitors as european partners... As a metaphor, you and your kind donned a mental straight jacket and its largely the reason why the whole exit from the EU has been a disaster from day one. Similarly at a global level, we don't have international partners, we have competitors.

The first step to brexit is to have some self respect and ditch all this partner wibble.
A miscarriage of sanity, caused by a bunch of old etonians, millionaires, 3 different leave campaigns. Some dick who thought the leave campaign would be a springboard to running the country. And it’s us that has the mental straight jacket.

Seriously. Thanks for playing.
 
A miscarriage of sanity, caused by a bunch of old etonians, millionaires, 3 different leave campaigns. Some dick who thought the leave campaign would be a springboard to running the country. And it’s us that has the mental straight jacket.

Seriously. Thanks for playing.
'Lunchtime' starts early at @skid2 towers.
 

skid2

LE
Book Reviewer
There was never a good deal, but I suspect a better deal could have been negotiated by a PM with more backbone.

The UK had cards to play: focusing on trade with the the rest of the world, seriously preparing for a hard Brexit, the£80 billion trade surplus the EU has with us, access to UK fishing waters and so on. None of those cards seems to have been played - May just caving in every time.

Wordsmith
Brexit was never a good deal.
Well done, better late than never. Would you have the first clue as to what the point of it all was?

Almost everyone has a trade surplus somewhere, it’s meant to be good for business, because you don’t have to pay cash on the barrelhead.
The fishing, although, emotional, is wildly overblown. They can come into our waters anytime they like, it’s a lot of water.

Make a few pounds short selling the pound on referendum night, hope for a greater killing on the eventual collapse of the pound after brexit?
Who knows. It’s a mystery.
 
I have never understood the rationale for wanting to remain within the single market. After we have exited the EU, it will collectively only account for 14% of world trade. There is six times the volume of trade in the rest of the world we could compete for. The EU and the single market's share of world trade is steadily shrinking and becoming an economic irrelevance.

Given that we have a £80 billion trade deficit with the EU, I'm sure a very public and evident determination to prioritise trade with the rest of the world over the EU would have forced the EU into concession to secure continued access to UK markets after Brexit.

May and Ollie Robbins showing a distinct lack oft thought processes again.

Wordsmith
Agree, personally I think that is because our Remain leader had absolutely no fundamental understanding of why the Yes vote won and as a result, developed totally unrealistic flawed expectations for what the Brexit deal should contain.
- like many political remainers e.g. the majority of the Labour party and most of the other MPs, they completed fooled themselves in listening to the gobby Owen Jones types/BBC etc believing the complete fallacy that 17.4 million thick northern racists only voted out to stop 'foreign' people coming to the UK rather than the full range of our concerns.
As a result, they honestly think/thought that any crappy deal would be accepted as long as it was seen to be able to bring uncontrolled mass immigration under a modicum of control.
On reflection, I can only assume that these people are complete lost causes in regard to believing in national sovereignty and the ability of UK businesses and people to not only cope but thrive in any circumstances. They have completely subjecated their loyalty to the EU and literally cannot imagine any other form of governance! They are also ignoring the ever increasing political and financial crises that are creating so much angst the EU with the 27, wrongly assuming that its something that will fizzle away if they ignore it enough.
 
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Yet still she stays, with not one brexiter having the balls to step up.
Do you not feel one scintilla of embarrassment?
No. I'm very thick skinned, but unlike PMTM, not stupid and my judgement is not crap.
 
Given that CMD had already wriggled out of one referendum promise, and that CMD only got a thin majority in 2015, that would have just looked like a PR exercise to committed Brexit voters and cost the Tories the election.

Wordsmith
Given that he promised the referendum to head off the phantom UKIP surge, I suspect you're right. But that's more about CMD's spine (or lack thereof) than the value of such a course of action.
 
Except it's not the status quo: it's an unstoppable move towards federalisation & a United States of Europe.
It's right there in the original charter, yet the rabid Remain faction continue to deny it.

Europe; yes.
Common market; yes.
USE; go get f**ked.
No argument from me about the issues with 'ever closer union'
 
A miscarriage of sanity, caused by a bunch of old etonians, millionaires, 3 different leave campaigns. Some dick who thought the leave campaign would be a springboard to running the country. And it’s us that has the mental straight jacket.

Seriously. Thanks for playing.
You asked me a question and I gave you my own opinion... Your response is to imply that the whole thing was a medicine show that I bimbled past and was sold some brexit shiny drink and went all wide eyed and am lost in a haze of unicorns, I find that a tad insulting. I suppose at the next stand down, you were sold the real deal which fills you with love and joy...

Of course your elixir is laced with laudinum. Has it ever occurred to you, if its almost impossible to get out now, how hard will it be in the future when you suddenly decide its not for you ?
 
Agree, personally I think that is because our Remain leader had absolutely no fundamental understanding of why the Yes vote won and as a result, totally developed unrealistic flawed expectations for what the Brexit deal should contain.
- like many political remainers e.g. the majority of the Labour party and most of the other MPs, they completed fooled themselves in listening to the gobby Owen Jones types/BBC etc believing the complete fallacy that 17.4 million thick northern racists only voted out to stop 'foreign' people coming to the UK rather than the full range of our concerns.
As a result, they honestly think/thought that any crappy deal would be accepted as long as it was seen to be able to bring uncontrolled mass immigration under a modicum of control.
On reflection, I can only assume that these people are complete lost causes in regard to believing in national sovereignty and the ability of UK businesses and people to not only cope but thrive in any circumstances. They have completely subjected their loyalty to the EU and literally cannot imagine any other form of governance! They are also ignoring the ever increasing political and financial crises that are creating so much angst the EU with the 27, wrongly assuming that its something that will fizzle away if they ignore it enough.
I'm not sure the reason is they have no fundamental understanding. I feel it is more of a 'they refuse to accept any other point of view other than their own'. That's what would appear to be driving their behaviours - it is a classic case of the shouty minority, whilst the silent majority get marginalised. if the shout majority gets equally shouty, we will see riots.

(Potentially) scary times.
 
I'm not sure the reason is they have no fundamental understanding. I feel it is more of a 'they refuse to accept any other point of view other than their own'. That's what would appear to be driving their behaviours - it is a classic case of the shouty minority, whilst the silent majority get marginalised. if the shout majority gets equally shouty, we will see riots.

(Potentially) scary times.
Look across the Channel at France.
 
I'm not sure the reason is they have no fundamental understanding. I feel it is more of a 'they refuse to accept any other point of view other than their own'. That's what would appear to be driving their behaviours - it is a classic case of the shouty minority, whilst the silent majority get marginalised. if the shout majority gets equally shouty, we will see riots.

(Potentially) scary times.
With apologies to Don McLean:

They would not listen, they did not know how.
They are not listening still
Perhaps they never will.
 
I didn't want a deal better than I had with the EU. Clearly that would be mental.

I want deals with RoW. And no EU protectionists in the way.

The Irish issue needs good bilateral faith. Thus far none from Dublin but they can try again.
No protectionism? Do you have an example of a major economy that doesn't practice it in some ways?
Well said! the enemy never had to negotiate because from Day 1 Olly and Teresa made it absolutely clear to them that they were never ever going to 'walk away' or stand up for the UK.

Therefore, from the enemy side there was no fear or incentive to give us a good deal. The enemy simply couldn't believe their luck when Olly and Teresa immediately acquiesced to their demand of agreeing the divorce bill first and then again when Olly and Teresa incredibly caved in over Ireland and agreed to the backstop get out of jail free card for the enemy which, no other country in the world would ever even contemplate accepting for a millisecond!

At no stage, has the UK even attempted to put the enemy under pressure or done anything to split the member states unity so Barnier has simply been left to suck as many concessions as he can from us -it must be said that he has played a blinder but if we are honest he has massively benefitted from going up against a world class lying, cheating, weak, gormless, incompetent, duplicitous, evil, remainer quisling and her civil service puppet master.

The enemy are now sat quietly laughing at the national disgrace and humiliation that is the UK parliament desperately doing everything it can, on their behalf, to sink/reverse/minimise Brexit - in the weeks ahead don't be surprised if the enemy strategically offer the odd safety line to Olly and Teresa at opportune moments to try to take the wind out of the sails of any political challenge to TM as PM.

Initially, this will take the form of an offer to allow an A50 extension, if that doesn't work it will be A50 withdrawal, if that doesn't work they will most likely offer scraps of concessions that look good on the surface but will be unpickable later on - in short, they will doing anything to keep Teresa and Olly in power as it greatly benefits them.

To finish on a slightly more positive note, if the Tories can ever scrape up the courage to turf out May and Coronate a proper Leaver then you will see Barnier immediately come under pressure from the 27 for the first time as he will have been seen by the member states to have pushed it too far - unfortunately the Tories are too cowardly to get rid of May and even if they did the remainers would ensure her replacement is equally as subservient to the enemy.
Cheers Gottlieb.
 
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