Brexit Phase Two - Trade

You are totally ignoring the fact that hard Brexit happens automatically on March 29th if no agreement is reached with the EU. The Tories will vote down any extension to Article 50's leaving date - to allow that to be extended is political suicide for them - and they want to win the 2022 GE - not gift it to Corbyn.

Its's political suicide for any party to vote for May's proposals. Shackling us to the EU in perpetuity will cause voters to desert both the Tories and Labour in droves at the next GE.

The main beneficiary of that will be UKIP - who will be the beneficiary of the protest vote to end all protest votes. I and millions of former Tory and Labour Brexit supporting voters will vote for them as the only party with the guts to truly take us out of Europe. UKIP won't win the GE, but I suspect the result will be a hung parliament, UKIP as the king makers and a Tory/UKIP/DUP coalition government saying Foxtrot Oscar to the EU.

Wordsmith
The voters want the issue settled one way, or another and are now fixed on somebody who will offer solutions now... If she goes to the country in a January GE and puts her deal into the manifesto, how many of the 50 Brexit MPs will resign from the party and stand against the new conservative candidate ?? or, will have to endorse the policy. If she wins, then the DUP can be swept aside and Corbyn would be finished.

I wouldn't be surprised if Labour strategists realise this and vote through her deal, to takeaway her rationale for a GE.
 
Its not an ad hom. It's pointing out people try to survive on far less and the terms you had in the CS are far better than many with similar backgrounds to you. Your post didn't seem to imply that. As I said, there people trying to survive on minimum wage which I think is about a quarter of what I get. I know everyone on ARRSE likes to pretend they are gazzilionaires, but reality for many people is minimum/living wage.

As I said to Extreme Tech, I know people who I grew up with that are still living in their childhood bedrooms at almost 40 years of age, because they simply cannot afford to rent their own place in London. That's the reality for many people.
My son lives at home too, because he's still studying for his final qualifications. We no longer live in London not because we can't afford it but London is not the be all and end all. Moreover I am not mug enough to spend more than I need. My property is mine and I owe nothing on it. I am not Londoner just because I lived there for forty years-I worked there. However one reason I don't live in London is because Government cannot do what it says on the can and obey it's own laws re fraud, the fact that Labour over 13 years bent over backwards to assist banking fraud. You can ask David Lammy when it is in the Public interest, you can ask the EU when it intends to put the aspects of access to Law under it HR act into practice and you can ask successive H/S when they'll stop putting limitations on Police investigations. But don't worry just carry on watching BBC investigative reporting and it'll all be ok. If I ever get back what I'm owed I'll be a millionaire at least. Still at least on a compound basis, because of zero interest rated the Government owes WASPIES no interest on the 30K they lost over five years just so the Bankers can get away with their nefarious practices @ Banker nothing personal
 
Yep - and I also follow politics.

The opposition's strategy is to bring down May and try to precipitate a General election. They do that by opposing May's deal and engineering its defeat in parliament.

If they bring down May and win any subsequent GE, that puts them in control of Brexit -and before the March 29th deadline to boot. They then control Brexit - and possibly even cancel it

Try thinking these things through.

Wordsmith

Then you will know the may 29th deadline is also the 21s Jan deadline. That is when HMG (who ever it is) has to start doing the legislation. a GE has to have 6 weeks notice (excluding Xmas?) it is all getting very tight.

I agree that Momentum..... sorry Labour want a GE at any cost to get the Dear Leader in with the puppet master JMD.

So will the Tories risk a GE?

Will Parliamnet risk a no Deal Brexit which will kill the UK?
 
Then you will know the may 29th deadline is also the 21s Jan deadline. That is when HMG (who ever it is) has to start doing the legislation. a GE has to have 6 weeks notice (excluding Xmas?) it is all getting very tight.

I agree that Momentum..... sorry Labour want a GE at any cost to get the Dear Leader in with the puppet master JMD.

So will the Tories risk a GE?

Will Parliamnet risk a no Deal Brexit which will kill the UK?
Everything hinges on Labour failing to back her deal. That gives her the political cover to call the GE and blame the neccessity of it due to labour failing to do what is best for the national interest.

Momentum and the leadership want the election, because they are deluded enough to think they would win (there echo chamber been even more a closed in groupthink). The rest of the labour party will understand how quickly things can spin out of control, as May found out to her cost in the last one.

No guarantees, but I think May would romp the election as remainers reluctantly come on board to back her and brexit minded folk have a growing fear of Jezza.
 
You are totally ignoring the fact that hard Brexit happens automatically on March 29th if no agreement is reached with the EU. The Tories will vote down any extension to Article 50's leaving date - to allow that to be extended is political suicide for them - and they want to win the 2022 GE - not gift it to Corbyn.

Its's political suicide for any party to vote for May's proposals. Shackling us to the EU in perpetuity will cause voters to desert both the Tories and Labour in droves at the next GE.

The main beneficiary of that will be UKIP - who will be the beneficiary of the protest vote to end all protest votes. I and millions of former Tory and Labour Brexit supporting voters will vote for them as the only party with the guts to truly take us out of Europe. UKIP won't win the GE, but I suspect the result will be a hung parliament, UKIP as the king makers and a Tory/UKIP/DUP coalition government saying Foxtrot Oscar to the EU.

Wordsmith

Plan B

Precipiate leadership crisis

Makes it palin to EU, a Hard Brexit is now in the offing

They will blink and offer the extra few percent that does the final deal
 
Labours rank and file MP's don't want a GE, they will be at severe risk of being de selected by Momentum.
Actually you raise an interesting point, I hadn't considered..

The labour party blarite establishment who lost control and are running scared, I assumed would be rational and fear the uncertainity of a GE.. But, if they thought Corbyn would lose spectacularly, would they not then support the idea of an election to wrest control back at momentums point of greatest weakness.
 
My son lives at home too, because he's still studying for his final qualifications. We no longer live in London not because we can't afford it but London is not the be all and end all. Moreover I am not mug enough to spend more than I need. My property is mine and I owe nothing on it. I am not Londoner just because I lived there for forty years-I worked there. However one reason I don't live in London is because Government cannot do what it says on the can and obey it's own laws re fraud, the fact that Labour over 13 years bent over backwards to assist banking fraud. You can ask David Lammy when it is in the Public interest, you can ask the EU when it intends to put the aspects of access to Law under it HR act into practice and you can ask successive H/S when they'll stop putting limitations on Police investigations. But don't worry just carry on watching BBC investigative reporting and it'll all be ok. If I ever get back what I'm owed I'll be a millionaire at least. Still at least on a compound basis, because of zero interest rated the Government owes WASPIES no interest on the 30K they lost over five years just so the Bankers can get away with their nefarious practices @ Banker nothing personal

I like London. I feel lucky to have grown up on the inside of the Green Belt, so I had the benefit of being in the centre of London in about 40 minutes (including a bus to the main station, and then a twenty minute tube ride), whilst I also had miles and miles of country parks at the end of the street. I'll certainly never be able to live there again though I don't think. I saw a friend recently post an advert for a flat in a rundown area where all the unemployed people tend to live. It was 400k for a one bedroom flat.

Also I think the corruption is everywhere. I saw that from the dealings of my fathers firm. If you got in with the right people, it would be arranged that you would accidently have admin access to the tender system, so you could see the bids put in by competing firms. Getting in with the right people involved things like free shopping trips to Costco and the occasional free home extension.
 
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If you're interested in some of the behavioural stuff behind this by the way, then I'd recommend Sperm Wars by Baker (although this will potentially change your view of relationships forever, and not for the better); The Moral Animal (can't remember the author here); and the Red Queen by Ridley.

Personally my view is that society - it's behaviour and shape - are largely driven by female preferences, rather than the so-called Patriarchy. If anything, I also think feminism is just another example of the female of the species directing male behaviour.
Humans are matriarchy unless something abnormal like male dominated religion or science (another form of religion) gets in the way.
In male eyes a pride of lions in the King of the jungle and his (on average) harem of five.
In reality lions don't fall in love, male lions don't hunt, so their is no point in having more than one sperm donor. This is the same with most mammals that don't pair off.
 
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skid2

LE
Book Reviewer
It's not a deal; it's a withdrawal agreement. The trade deal has yet to be negotiated.

But I'll go with it too, given that the alternatives could be a lot worse (like another referendum or GE).
You mean there’s worse to come. Oh good I wonder how much harm we’re going to do to ourselves.

You have to wonder about some people. Listening to some in here we’re at war with Europe. Brexit is a battle, white cliffs of Dover.

Yet. Europe hasn’t lifted a finger. We’ve done all this to ourselves.
 
Humans are matriarchy unless something abnormal like male dominated religion or science (another form of religion) gets in the way.
In male eyes a pride of lions in the King of the jungle and his (on average) harem of five.
In reality lions don't fall in love, male lions don't hunt, so their is no point in having more than one sperm donor. This is the same with most mammals that don't pair off.

Are you sure lions don't fall in love? The system for falling in love is brainstem stuff that is common to all with a mammalian brain (it's all to do with the various systems for emotion regulation). (and the system that causes bonding (or 'love') between two people is primarily for developing a bond between a parent and offspring , pair-bonding between lovers is a just a byproduct of that.).
 
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