Brexit Phase Two - Trade

seaweed

LE
Book Reviewer
Although IMHO, May is simply trying to deliver the best deal for the country she can get, regardless of the personal cost to herself, and does not a have an ulterior agenda, unlike most of those around her.

The one thing that the vote manifestly failed to do was to end the civil war over Europe that has torn the Tory party apart for a quarter of a century. The only thing that has stopped it splitting, is the fear that neither of its successors would have the strength alone to defeat Labour. Combined with the increasing lurch to the left by Labour, it leaves the electorate with no "safe pair of hands" party to navigate sensibly through the relationship with Europe, without creating the sort of situation we are now in.

Despite their otherwise tarnished reputations with many on this site, Margaret Thatcher and Tony Blair negotiated skillfully with Europe in their own ways. It helped of course that they dominated their own parties for most of their time in office, which May doesn't....
Blair? You call surrendering our rebate 'negotiating skilfully'?
 
I cannot but think that the Brexit negotiations would have had a more successful outcome had the Tories chosen a different leader.
How so? The key jobs were all filled by committed Leavers. They spent the referendum campaign telling us all how easy it would all be, so it only seems fair that they should be forced to deliver on their promises.

What a surprise, they failed.

I cannot help but think that the Brexit negotiations would have had a more successful outcome had the referendum actually offered a credible plan for leaving. You know, "vote to leave", with a second option marked "vote for BINO, Norway, Canada - now, get on with it". That way, we wouldn't have people claiming that "the British People voted overwhelmingly for X / never voted for Y", or taking eighteen months before even managing to say what we'd like to do.

If May had chosen a more competent, but less ideologically sound, group for the key posts, then she'd have been accused of trying to sabotage the negotiations from the outset. Instead, the first Brexit Secretary had a year and a half in the job, and even then he never managed to come up with a credible plan.

Remember, most leading politicians know that peoples' expectations cannot be met. All they're doing is trying to get the best for the country (May et al) or the best for themselves (Johnson et al) while trying to keep Labour out of government.
 

skid2

LE
Book Reviewer
How so? The key jobs were all filled by committed Leavers. They spent the referendum campaign telling us all how easy it would all be, so it only seems fair that they should be forced to deliver on their promises.

What a surprise, they failed.

I cannot help but think that the Brexit negotiations would have had a more successful outcome had the referendum actually offered a credible plan for leaving. You know, "vote to leave", with a second option marked "vote for BINO, Norway, Canada - now, get on with it". That way, we wouldn't have people claiming that "the British People voted overwhelmingly for X / never voted for Y", or taking eighteen months before even managing to say what we'd like to do.

If May had chosen a more competent, but less ideologically sound, group for the key posts, then she'd have been accused of trying to sabotage the negotiations from the outset. Instead, the first Brexit Secretary had a year and a half in the job, and even then he never managed to come up with a credible plan.

Remember, most leading politicians know that peoples' expectations cannot be met. All they're doing is trying to get the best for the country (May et al) or the best for themselves (Johnson et al) while trying to keep Labour out of government.
The only credible part of your statement is the word credible and its real meaning which is: what is credible to the EU and UK Remain camp. The only reason we have brino is the polls didn't shift for an age and Corbyn keeping May boxed in and forcing her to deliver something, to try and keep her party together.
 
I don't think many Tory MP's expected to see My plumb her current depths of stupidity.

It looks like the problems are in the small print of the agreement. It's difficult not to see the opposition exploiting that by putting forward amendments that will be supported by the Brexit wing of the Tory party. Which is just another way they can heap humiliation on May.

As I've said before, May has been so focused on getting an agreement with the EU, she's completely ignored the reaction it would get in the UK. It's causing major political waves at the moment. And when the full text is released, I expect the firestorm to go nuclear.

At the moment, my gut feel is that May will be forced to resign inside of a fortnight, leaving the Tories with the political headache to end all headaches.

Wordsmith

I think she's done this entirely deliberately and in the national interest as a good vicar's daughter.

Perhaps running through fields of corn is not exactly her naughtiest moment.
 
No idea. But if the law decides it’s hers. Then it’s hers. In this case it’s up to the law to be changed if it’s wrong. Why would how you voted matter.
It’s benefit case law. And barrel scraping by the look of things.
What next?
If we don’t leave the Turks will join the Eu,
Talks started in 1959. That's the year, not the 24 hour clock.
 
While we were in Europe and not joining in. It wasn’t going to happen. Now if they want a European army they can have one. I don’t understand how you don’t get it.
It’s not difficult.
Why should we be the moral police in the EU? What gives us the right to act as the counter balance?

If they want an EU army, I say let them.
If the want a federal EU, I say let them.
If Macron wants an EU Empire, I say let them.

If it turns out roses for them, fabulous!
If it turns out rotten, they only have them selves to blame and not the UK.
 
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