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Brexit Phase Two - Trade

[QUOTE="RoofRat, ! It would also include lots of 'White Goods' from Italy and Germany! I.
Just like France, most white goods all made in China! and flogged to their own domestic markets and to the EU.

Don't trust the 'Made in Germany' 'Made in France' etc etc. I often walk the Chinese assemble lines, and see parts made for assembly elsewhere, it's all a big conn!.[/QUOTE]

Correct, Bosch has lots of it's electrical 'inards' made over there, one of the reasons I won't entertain Apple in any of it's guises is, they fail to put the "Made in China" sticker on any of their goods, so they can charge telephone numbers for them.
 
The EU is negotiating for its short term survival. As repeatedly pointed out, the single market is in fact a protectionist one with high import tariffs designed to keep more efficient manufacturers out of the European market.

European Commission : Market Access database : EU Tariffs

If the UK becomes a conduit for lower cost goods to enter the EU, a lot of European manufacturers are going to be really fecked.

I said short term survival, because the next recession is going to change the EU beyond all recognition. Greece is sure to default on its debt; Italy almost certain to follow, throwing the eurozone into crisis.

The only way the EU can hope to avoid that is for another treaty before the next recession hits. If the UK is allowed to exit the EU without any pain, other countries may decide that exiting the EU is a better bet that signing away even more power to Brussels.

(In any event, a new treaty is a non-starter: it has to be unanimous - and too many countries are opposed to ceding more power to Brussels).

The EU is negotiating an an attempt to secure its own survival - although it would never dare to say that publicly. As such, I have always thought a hard Brexit a likely outcome of the talks.

All the EU demands (such as for the UK to keep EU law on the statute books and remain in the jurisdiction of the ECJ) are designed to tie the UK's hands after Brexit. For the EU to save the euro, its needs centrally imposed regulations and probably a higher level of taxation. If the UK goes the other way (low tax/low regulation) and prospers as a result, it'll be yet another disincentive for EU member states to approve a new treaty.

As such, the EU has no intention of negotiating an equitable exit for the UK from the EU - everything it is asking for is focused around trying to ensure its own survival.

Wordsmith
Anybody remember back in the day, when the UK had a problem with cheap, well made goods. coming in from the Far East.................Japan I believe?;-)
 
I always ask people to quantify exports and imports from the EU in monetary terms. Percentages prove nothing !
This took 30 seconds. Heard of google?

Everything you might want to know about the UK's trade with the EU

About 44% of UK exports in goods and services went to other countries in the EU in 2017—£274 billion out of £616 billion total exports.
In 2017, the rest of the EU sold about £67 billion more to us in goods and services than we sold to them, according to UK data—so the UK runs a “trade deficit” with the rest of the EU.
Exports of goods and services to other EU countries were worth £274 billion in 2017, while exports from the rest of the EU to the UK were worth about £341 billion.

Why are you ignoring the percentages and thus the proportions? I suppose that way you can convince yourself that brexit will hurt the EU more than it will hurt us, the oft trotted out lie.

The fact remains that even the most exposed EU MS isn't going be as damaged by brexit in trade terms as the UK, due to the proportion and thus importance of trade to each country.

Looking at this in monetary terms alone is at best misleading and at worst self deception
 
‘Made in France’, ‘Made in Germany’?
Under the rather fast and lose rules they apply, ‘Made in Germany can mean little more than the apporioate German brand label was stuck on in a warehouse in Frankfurt before shipping to the distributors.
 
I regularly send our products overseas, within the EU, Eastern Europe, the Middle East & Antipodes.

It doesn't matter where we source the component parts, when we send our product to the customer, because we have 'added value' by carrying out some manufacturing process or other, should a Certificate of Origin be required (which it's not whilst shipping within the EU, and not always required when shipping outside the EU) we put the EU as the origin. Should a country not accept EU as the country of origin we then put the UK. The Commercial Invoice will also have EU as the country of origin.

Therefore, all the components could have been made in China, for example, but when we send the finished product it is classed as made in the EU/UK.
 

Sixty

ADC
Moderator
Book Reviewer
You thought his grammatically incorrect pedantry was a 'burn' after spending the day posting badly written and incomprehensible nonsense? Either this alleged OU degree of yours is false or that institution has gone massively downhill.
 

Auld-Yin

ADC
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Reviews Editor
You are a spewer of lies Andy wrt brexit and are the embodiment of the falsehoods that have landed us here.
That you jumping on yet another bandwagon as it passes you :rolleyes:
 
The whole point of any negotiations, is to have valid input from both sides!

What we have from Juencker et al. is, "La Response est NON! Quelle est la Question!"

The EU team (I refuse to justify it by using the word negotiating), have been dismissive since day one, May hit the nail on the head, when she talked about rejecting proposals, with no counter proposal.
The EU team have no intention of doing any deal with the UK
Recently it has been issues with the Irish border
Next week it will be something else
The EU wants a hard Brexit because they are being told by Blair, Mandleson, Clegg, Cable, Khan and more senior British Political figures that if there is a no deal Brexit they can force another referendum
And what's more this time they'll make sure the British people vote correctly
 
Gen Dit: Had a conversation with another season ticket holder I sit next to down the Rec this afternoon at half time against Northampton;
Me; So what do you think of the current situation with Brexit?
Him; It's a disaster, I'm in the Wine import business have been all my life. We've ( him and his wife) always been Europeans at heart. We are seriously thinking of jacking the whole thing in and shutting the business down.
Me; You don't you import wines from elsewhere in the World then... Chile, South Africa, Oz?
Him: No. Just Italy.
Me: So how much do you reckon your going to have to add under WTO for Tariffs?
Him: No idea! ( He's got no idea what the WTO tariff is, but he's decided It'll end his business! Huh?)…..
Me: I shouldn't think it would be too much. I've always thought across the board that Italian wines were quite competitive anyway, when compared to other European and world wines.
Him: Oh we don't import £6-£9.00 bottles of plonk. We taste, source and buy fine wines from Italy for Waitrose. You know, £25 and up? ( No, I don't know £25 bottles of wine...£6 tops!)
Me: So if the tariff's say 10% and your £25 Bottle becomes say £27.50 ish, the sort of people who spend that amount on a bottle of wine are going to bulk at the addition of a couple of quid are they..... or do you expect rich people to become extinct in this country after Brexit?

He's not speaking to me anymore. He's got the project fear worm in his ear.
he's built his business in importing one high price item to one outlet...

he's obviously not a great businessman in the first place.

Does he know Sardinia and Corsica also do some pretty good wines for example?
 
You thought his grammatically incorrect pedantry was a 'burn' after spending the day posting badly written and incomprehensible nonsense? Either this alleged OU degree of yours is false or that institution has gone massively downhill.
Nope. I thought you being picked up for bad English after your last pop at me (see above) was funny as f*ck.

That is all.
 
The EU team have no intention of doing any deal with the UK
Recently it has been issues with the Irish border
Next week it will be something else
The EU wants a hard Brexit because they are being told by Blair, Mandleson, Clegg, Cable, Khan and more senior British Political figures that if there is a no deal Brexit they can force another referendum
And what's more this time they'll make sure the British people vote correctly
I don't recall the EU getting involved with NI before, but now....
 

Sixty

ADC
Moderator
Book Reviewer
Nope. I thought you being picked up for bad English after your last pop at me (see above) was funny as f*ck.

That is all.
Except it wasn’t ‘bad English’ was it? I’d have thought an alleged OU alumnus would have realised.

Hence my cynicism and suspicion that you’ve done a couple of modules then sacked it.
 
Except it wasn’t ‘bad English’ was it? I’d have thought an alleged OU alumnus would have realised.

Hence my cynicism and suspicion that you’ve done a couple of modules then sacked it.
i think you need to ask yourself one question...

'does anybody have to prove anything to me (or you, Sixty)?'

the answer is no. Not because you're not intelligent. Nor because you're a moderator on a web forum, which you seem to think folk should respect you for.

No.

because every post of yours seems to indicate that you're a bit of a whopper.

You may go now.
 
Some thoughts.

Both sides could sign a free trade agreement tomorrow. The EU would even get £40b in return (over the course of a few decades). The fact this isn't happening it's simply down to the EU deciding that the best way to protect the future of the EU is to punish the UK with as damaging relationship as possible.

Looking at the group photo as Salzburg it strikes a strange sight; so much bristling confidence. But the EU could not protect itself in any conflict, it totally relies on the UK and France to have any real muscle on the continent. What force could be mustered when the UK leaves? Combined could it deal with even Turkey? France wouldn't want to be the major player and take the most of any casualties for the defence of any Balkan nation.

It could have gone on day one like this:

EU *We really need the security the the UK military and intelligence provides, we don't want to take a big hit by loosing a big market either, let's propose a free trade deal and try to get as much money as possible without risking the relationship.*

UK *We want a free trade deal and are prepared to pay towards it and will continue providing intelligence and defence to the EU in addition*

Afternoon of Day 1, free trade deal agreed: all markets and businesses are happy. Voter's everywhere are happy. UK is happy, EU is happy. Everyone works towards a stronger Europe together.

Why can't this be signed tomorrow?

Everyone knows the answer, even the most ardent remainer. That same answer is why the majority of voters decided that they don't want to be a part of a club with members such as that.

Just leave. Everyone knew the economy would stagnant for a decade or so as a result, it's a price will worth paying to get be removed from such a horrible organisation. We paid a similar price to bail out banks, doing so again to get out of the EU is a far better reason.

Time for May to play a real hand, arrange a video conference and say our last offer is a full free trade agreement and the £40b and we will continue our intelligence and defense commitments.

If not then it's clear the EU doesn't want a future relationship with the UK so the UK will walk and take all off its commitments with it, including all intelligence services and military deployments apart from with those NATO nations that contribute the 2% GDP target. Hang up the phone.

I really don't see why you wouldn't negotiate with all of your strongest cards. It's quite clear the the EU doesn't care or respect the contribution the UK made to it, so why continue extending it?
There are plenty of deals on offer, just not any that offer the full benefits of membership without being a member.

1537646025903.png
 
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the eu discards its own rules whenever it wants...
When it suites them, not third countries which we've chosen to become one such beast. Not hard is it?
 
Speak it’s name and it steps forward to prove your case @Tired_Tech
I'd have thought manofmanynames, that posters who agree with you would reconsider whether they're on the right track when they look at the number of times you've been proven to be bluffing. A truly strange thing is Brexit, a bluffers paradise.

If it all goes to rat shit you could always change your name again.
 

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