Brexit Phase Two - Trade

Wordsmith

LE
Book Reviewer
I have noticed a significant toughening of the UK's negotiating stance.

Britain will 'thrive' even if there is no Brexit deal, minister says, as David Davis calls on PM to 'reset' her plan
Britain will "thrive" even if there is no Brexit deal, Dominic Raab has said, as his predecessor David Davis called on the Prime Minister to "reset" her Brexit plan and prepare a "reserve parachute" in case no agreement is reached.

Mr Raab said there was "tremendous pressure" on the EU to secure a deal as he branded his counterparts "irresponsible" for failing to reassure British citizens living abroad about their rights after Brexit.
Dominic Raab: Britain will refuse to pay £39 billion divorce bill to Brussels if the EU fails to agree trade deal
Britain will refuse to pay its £39 billion divorce bill to Brussels if the European Union fails to agree a trade deal, the new Brexit Secretary pledges today.

Dominic Raab told The Sunday Telegraph that he would make the vast payment formally conditional on the EU “fulfilling its side of the bargain”.
May was absolutely stupid not to play these cards before. She's just proved to be week in negotiations and a doormat the EU has walked right over. At least Dominic Rabb is adopting a more realistic negotiating stance.

Which in turn is more likely to force concessions out of the EU.

Wordsmith
 
I have noticed a significant toughening of the UK's negotiating stance.

Britain will 'thrive' even if there is no Brexit deal, minister says, as David Davis calls on PM to 'reset' her plan


Dominic Raab: Britain will refuse to pay £39 billion divorce bill to Brussels if the EU fails to agree trade deal


May was absolutely stupid not to play these cards before. She's just proved to be week in negotiations and a doormat the EU has walked right over. At least Dominic Rabb is adopting a more realistic negotiating stance.

Which in turn is more likely to force concessions out of the EU.

Wordsmith

There ya go.

40% of trade is with the EU… so WTO rules, they are required to impose the lowest tariffs, so all these fantastical claims of punitive tariffs are ballaux.

But whats NEVER mentioned by Remainiacs… we can drop all the often punitive tariffs we are forced to impose by the EU on the 60% of goods we import from outside Utopia.

And THATS exactly what the EU is terrified of, the UK importing goods from outside EUtopia tariff free, and even with WTO tariffs applied by the EU being able to undercut EU firms.
 
I still don't think most people don't understand what a customs function is. It's like not fully understanding the function of the military as the extention of FP.
At heart any customs organisation is defensive to the national interest. It doesn't prevent business it hinders unwanted business by raising revenue and monitors the vested interests of the state. This raising of revenue is called a Tariff. Rome took over Britain because of trade, the Normans took over Britain because of trade because both Rome and William saw the capability of controlling trade. Our wars with America, France, Spain, Holland Portugal etc were all because of the control of trade but no administration has ever rid itself of the ability to raise revenue because it's critical to independent action.

So we have in Brexit a unique argument about divesting ourselves of the ability to act unilateraly in our own interest. Joining the Common Market in 73 had so many ramifications that we never understood then. It was incidentally about the time of the reforms that brought an end to an older system. It never struck me at the time as a newby, because it was always discussed in Isolation, never in the round.

When Lawson said he considered by by 1990 that the Common Market had reached it's limit, it was about right. By then I'd served for fourteen years and had reached the cynical stage. That ,is you know something's wrong, can't pin it down, but your masters tell you it's policy.

So can I reiterate, The CU is not a Free trade agreement
A trade agreement is not essential to trade, it depends whose controlling it and if the prices are attractive.
Ultimately the whip hand lies in the consumer pocket.
 
I'm surprised that there has been no mention of the fact that, last week Japan had been granted an EU Free Trade deal with access to the Single Market, with no strings attached, usual rules apply re: conforming to quality, packaging and labelling etc.

Strange that I have heard no mention in MSM ?

If Japan can get the 'deal', why can't the UK (apart from the anglophobic negotiating team, most of the Commision and, shitloads of (B)Eurocrats)?
 
At heart any customs organisation is defensive to the national interest. It doesn't prevent business it hinders unwanted business by raising revenue and monitors the vested interests of the state.
.
Indeed, His Majesties Revenue existed to intercept goods avoiding embargoes and tariffs.

The CU is not a Free trade agreement
.
Indeed, its a protectionist regime designed to shut out competition and stifle the free market.
Without protectionist tarrifs, the grossly inefficient French sheep growing business would be eating within a year.
 

Wordsmith

LE
Book Reviewer
There ya go.

40% of trade is with the EU… so WTO rules, they are required to impose the lowest tariffs, so all these fantastical claims of punitive tariffs are ballaux.

But whats NEVER mentioned by Remainiacs… we can drop all the often punitive tariffs we are forced to impose by the EU on the 60% of goods we import from outside Utopia.

And THATS exactly what the EU is terrified of, the UK importing goods from outside EUtopia tariff free, and even with WTO tariffs applied by the EU being able to undercut EU firms.
Slight misapprehension - there are no tariffs inside the single market. Increased prices come from other sources including:
  1. Import tariffs forcing up the prices for goods from the rest of the world, allowing inefficient EU producers to get away with higher prices for their goods rather than having to sell at world prices.
  2. Thinks like the CAP forcing up the price of food relative to the world market.
As such, the UK would be wise to negotiate a timescale for reducing EU tariffs to WTO levels - if they're removed at a stroke, EU forms will not have time to adjust. For example UK farmers are used to selling at the artificially high prices resulting from the CAP. They'll need 5 - 10 years to adjust their farming practices so they're competitive on the world market.

And that is one of the hidden benefits for leaving the EU - it will force UK firms to innovate and be more competitive.

Wordsmith
 
I'm surprised that there has been no mention of the fact that, last week Japan had been granted an EU Free Trade deal with access to the Single Market, with no strings attached, usual rules apply re: conforming to quality, packaging and labelling etc.

Strange that I have heard no mention in MSM ?

If Japan can get the 'deal', why can't the UK (apart from the anglophobic negotiating team, most of the Commision and, shitloads of (B)Eurocrats)?
No mention? You need to go back a few pages. It's been mentioned quite a few times.

Plus all over the press, BBC etc.

Independent
BBC
And loads of others. Maybe you aren't looking or reading.
Of course UK could get the "deal", Just needs our team to turn up to the meetings now and again.
 
IIf Japan can get the 'deal', why can't the UK (apart from the anglophobic negotiating team, most of the Commision and, shitloads of (B)Eurocrats)?

No vested political interests in Japan looking forward to fabulously well paid non jobs in Brussels and Strasbourg after failing in domestic politics.
 

skid2

LE
Book Reviewer
Things we learnt this weekend.
Dire consequences for those least able to afford it. John Major
No divorce deal without trade deal. Dominic Rab (that’s going to really impress our future trade partners. The term will be known as brexiting on a deal as opposed to ‘welching’)
Anyone remember when the UK government had to think about stockpiling food as a result of its own actions. An unfortunate line which found its way into the media. Dominic Raab.
The Eus border backstop is unacceptable. Didn’t we agree to this back in December.
Civil unrest if there’s no deal. Amazon and The Times
No deal could lead to state of emergency. Dominic Grieve


Now look. It’s not up to me to help out the brexiters when their winning is obviously going so well.
But if I were them I’d be getting out there with some of their ‘considerable upsides’


‘Why sometimes I’ve believed as many as six impossible things before Brexit’ Lewis Carroll.
 
And that is one of the hidden benefits for leaving the EU - it will force UK firms to innovate and be more competitive.
Go, go go Brexit you know what they say
Hang on now Brexit you'll make it some day
Don't give up Britain fight till you drop
We've read the book and you come out on top

Read more: Joseph - Go, Go, Go, Joseph Lyrics | MetroLyrics
 

skid2

LE
Book Reviewer
Slight misapprehension - there are no tariffs inside the single market. Increased prices come from other sources including:
  1. Import tariffs forcing up the prices for goods from the rest of the world, allowing inefficient EU producers to get away with higher prices for their goods rather than having to sell at world prices.
  2. Thinks like the CAP forcing up the price of food relative to the world market.
As such, the UK would be wise to negotiate a timescale for reducing EU tariffs to WTO levels - if they're removed at a stroke, EU forms will not have time to adjust. For example UK farmers are used to selling at the artificially high prices resulting from the CAP. They'll need 5 - 10 years to adjust their farming practices so they're competitive on the world market.

And that is one of the hidden benefits for leaving the EU - it will force UK firms to innovate and be more competitive.

Wordsmith

This competitive and innovative stuff we keep hearing about. I don’t suppose you can cite one incidence where as members of the Eu, it limited our ability to strive for competitiveness and innovate.
Again.
Just asking like.
 
Things we learnt this weekend.
Dire consequences for those least able to afford it. John Major
No divorce deal without trade deal. Dominic Rab (that’s going to really impress our future trade partners. The term will be known as brexiting on a deal as opposed to ‘welching’)
Anyone remember when the UK government had to think about stockpiling food as a result of its own actions. An unfortunate line which found its way into the media. Dominic Raab.
The Eus border backstop is unacceptable. Didn’t we agree to this back in December.
Civil unrest if there’s no deal. Amazon and The Times
No deal could lead to state of emergency. Dominic Grieve


Now look. It’s not up to me to help out the brexiters when their winning is obviously going so well.
But if I were them I’d be getting out there with some of their ‘considerable upsides’


‘Why sometimes I’ve believed as many as six impossible things before Brexit’ Lewis Carroll.
You can almost smell the desperation and willingness to believe any old tripe. Mind you, I suppose I'd be annoyed with myself if I fell for the government position in 2016 and voted to remain.
They don't get thicker than this...
FBPE.JPG
 

Wordsmith

LE
Book Reviewer
So can I reiterate, The CU is not a Free trade agreement
A trade agreement is not essential to trade, it depends whose controlling it and if the prices are attractive.
Ultimately the whip hand lies in the consumer pocket.
The CU is the reverse of a free trade agreement, with swinging protectionist tariffs in place on many goods.

Trump is now taking aim at those protectionist tariffs, so apart from the financial implications of EU goods being shut off from the US market, the EU is going to see an unforgettable spotlight shone on those protectionist tariffs.

The EU is heading into a heads the US wins, tails the EU loses situation. Leave the tariffs in place and trade with the US decreases - with job losses. Remove the tariffs and inefficient EU producers will be driven out of business - with job losses.

The UK will have its own set of problems to deal with, but at least we will have regained full freedom of action - and not be forced down a course of action that might suit France/Germany and not us.

Wordsmith
 
The EU is heading into a heads the US wins, tails the EU loses situation. Leave the tariffs in place and trade with the US decreases - with job losses. Remove the tariffs and inefficient EU producers will be driven out of business - with job losses.

Wordsmith

Tarrifs on the US were great as long as the US was a nett energy importer… alas, the goalposts changed, fracking and all that now makes the US an exporter again and gives the US the whip hand in energy costs at the factory gate.

Its going to be painful for the EU as its hitched its Chevauex to cheap Russian energy and played right into Trumps hands.,
 
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EU forcing up the price of food


Most beef imports into the EU are subject to ad valorem tariffs of 12.8 per cent, plus a fixed amount ranging from €1,414 to €3,041 per tonne, depending on the cut. In most cases, this tariff equates to an addition of 50 per cent or more to the value of imports, which seriously impacts on the ability of imported beef to compete with EU meat.

(For certain cuts, Tariffs can reach an eye watering 160%)

Any sheep meat imports outside quota or from countries not covered by it, are subject to ad valorem tari s of 12.8%, plus a xed amount ranging from €902 to €3118 per tonne, depending on the cut. In many cases, this would be equivalent to an ad valorem tari of 50 per cent or more, which seriously impacts on the ability of imported sheep meat to compete with EU meat.


The EU is a protection racket.
 
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