Brexit Phase Two - Trade

Obviously. Members get better a better deal than non-members.
It has been the case for every club or membership organisation since they were first created.

The problem the UK has on Brexit as pointed out by Major this morning is that when the UK leaves the EU the UK also leaves 50 trade deals the EU has.
That is a very simplistic view.

What if membership of the club results in levels of taxation (corporation tax, VAT etc) and regulation that burden UK business and render them less competitive on the world stage.?

What if the club is planning further political and financial integration that would require you sign over power of attorney over some of your affairs (in plain language requiring Westminster to transfer power to Brussels).

What is the financial system used by the club (the euro) has serious structural flaws and will result in a full or partial failure in the next recession?

What if the club is a protectionist organisation that is going to result in a trade war with the US with Trump imposing retaliatory tariffs for the protectionist tariffs that the EU uses to keep competitors out of the single market.

What is the club has a policy - the Common Agricultural Policy - that keeps food prices above world levels, meaning we all pay more than we need to for our food?

In those circumstances, maybe the UK is better off outside of the club.

Wordsmith
 
Meanwhile:

Government's pro-EU publicity blitz gave Remain an unfair advantage in the referendum, report suggests
A£ 9.3m pro-EU publicity blitz by David Cameron's government in the run-up to the Brexit referendum gave the Remain side an unfair advantage, the like of which should be outlawed in future votes, an independent commission has suggested.

In a major report, a cross-party panel called for a significant extension of restrictions banning ministers from using unlimited amounts of public money in favour of one side of a debate before the final month of a campaign.
The establishment tried to rig the vote - unfortunately the electorate gave them two fingers.

The establishment is now trying to sabotage Brexit.

Wordsmith
 

skid2

LE
Book Reviewer
You are taking to a bloke that called interest rates correctly for 10 years
Hardly relevant though fascinating I admit. Was it an annual announcement or a monthly one as to the rise and fall of interest rates. You’ve hardly been overworked this last few years.

Once again Boris PM by September and Rees Mogg Chancellor by October?
That’s what you’re saying?
I disagree.


And despite backing Argentina in the World Cup.

I’ll take that £20 a head to the site charity. Payable to hols for heroes on 30th Sept for Boris and 31st October for William.
Should either appear in their chosen role.
 

skid2

LE
Book Reviewer
That is a very simplistic view.

What if membership of the club results in levels of taxation (corporation tax, VAT etc) and regulation that burden UK business and render them less competitive on the world stage.?

What if the club is planning further political and financial integration that would require you sign over power of attorney over some of your affairs (in plain language requiring Westminster to transfer power to Brussels).

What is the financial system used by the club (the euro) has serious structural flaws and will result in a full or partial failure in the next recession?

What if the club is a protectionist organisation that is going to result in a trade war with the US with Trump imposing retaliatory tariffs for the protectionist tariffs that the EU uses to keep competitors out of the single market.

What is the club has a policy - the Common Agricultural Policy - that keeps food prices above world levels, meaning we all pay more than we need to for our food?

In those circumstances, maybe the UK is better off outside of the club.

Wordsmith
You could have a lot of fun with What if. If you had a little imagination and a sense of humour.
What if Labour support a Customs Union (watch that space)
What if Tony Blair becomes Euro president.
What if Peter Mandalson as interior hatchet man
What if Farage doesn’t get re-elected as an MEP
What if, all your what ifs are fantasy and your predictions aren’t even close .
Just asking like. I don’t expect an answer.
 
I have noticed a significant toughening of the UK's negotiating stance.

Britain will 'thrive' even if there is no Brexit deal, minister says, as David Davis calls on PM to 'reset' her plan
Britain will "thrive" even if there is no Brexit deal, Dominic Raab has said, as his predecessor David Davis called on the Prime Minister to "reset" her Brexit plan and prepare a "reserve parachute" in case no agreement is reached.

Mr Raab said there was "tremendous pressure" on the EU to secure a deal as he branded his counterparts "irresponsible" for failing to reassure British citizens living abroad about their rights after Brexit.
Dominic Raab: Britain will refuse to pay £39 billion divorce bill to Brussels if the EU fails to agree trade deal
Britain will refuse to pay its £39 billion divorce bill to Brussels if the European Union fails to agree a trade deal, the new Brexit Secretary pledges today.

Dominic Raab told The Sunday Telegraph that he would make the vast payment formally conditional on the EU “fulfilling its side of the bargain”.
May was absolutely stupid not to play these cards before. She's just proved to be week in negotiations and a doormat the EU has walked right over. At least Dominic Rabb is adopting a more realistic negotiating stance.

Which in turn is more likely to force concessions out of the EU.

Wordsmith
 
I have noticed a significant toughening of the UK's negotiating stance.

Britain will 'thrive' even if there is no Brexit deal, minister says, as David Davis calls on PM to 'reset' her plan


Dominic Raab: Britain will refuse to pay £39 billion divorce bill to Brussels if the EU fails to agree trade deal


May was absolutely stupid not to play these cards before. She's just proved to be week in negotiations and a doormat the EU has walked right over. At least Dominic Rabb is adopting a more realistic negotiating stance.

Which in turn is more likely to force concessions out of the EU.

Wordsmith

There ya go.

40% of trade is with the EU… so WTO rules, they are required to impose the lowest tariffs, so all these fantastical claims of punitive tariffs are ballaux.

But whats NEVER mentioned by Remainiacs… we can drop all the often punitive tariffs we are forced to impose by the EU on the 60% of goods we import from outside Utopia.

And THATS exactly what the EU is terrified of, the UK importing goods from outside EUtopia tariff free, and even with WTO tariffs applied by the EU being able to undercut EU firms.
 
I still don't think most people don't understand what a customs function is. It's like not fully understanding the function of the military as the extention of FP.
At heart any customs organisation is defensive to the national interest. It doesn't prevent business it hinders unwanted business by raising revenue and monitors the vested interests of the state. This raising of revenue is called a Tariff. Rome took over Britain because of trade, the Normans took over Britain because of trade because both Rome and William saw the capability of controlling trade. Our wars with America, France, Spain, Holland Portugal etc were all because of the control of trade but no administration has ever rid itself of the ability to raise revenue because it's critical to independent action.

So we have in Brexit a unique argument about divesting ourselves of the ability to act unilateraly in our own interest. Joining the Common Market in 73 had so many ramifications that we never understood then. It was incidentally about the time of the reforms that brought an end to an older system. It never struck me at the time as a newby, because it was always discussed in Isolation, never in the round.

When Lawson said he considered by by 1990 that the Common Market had reached it's limit, it was about right. By then I'd served for fourteen years and had reached the cynical stage. That ,is you know something's wrong, can't pin it down, but your masters tell you it's policy.

So can I reiterate, The CU is not a Free trade agreement
A trade agreement is not essential to trade, it depends whose controlling it and if the prices are attractive.
Ultimately the whip hand lies in the consumer pocket.
 
I'm surprised that there has been no mention of the fact that, last week Japan had been granted an EU Free Trade deal with access to the Single Market, with no strings attached, usual rules apply re: conforming to quality, packaging and labelling etc.

Strange that I have heard no mention in MSM ?

If Japan can get the 'deal', why can't the UK (apart from the anglophobic negotiating team, most of the Commision and, shitloads of (B)Eurocrats)?
 
At heart any customs organisation is defensive to the national interest. It doesn't prevent business it hinders unwanted business by raising revenue and monitors the vested interests of the state.
.
Indeed, His Majesties Revenue existed to intercept goods avoiding embargoes and tariffs.

The CU is not a Free trade agreement
.
Indeed, its a protectionist regime designed to shut out competition and stifle the free market.
Without protectionist tarrifs, the grossly inefficient French sheep growing business would be eating within a year.
 
There ya go.

40% of trade is with the EU… so WTO rules, they are required to impose the lowest tariffs, so all these fantastical claims of punitive tariffs are ballaux.

But whats NEVER mentioned by Remainiacs… we can drop all the often punitive tariffs we are forced to impose by the EU on the 60% of goods we import from outside Utopia.

And THATS exactly what the EU is terrified of, the UK importing goods from outside EUtopia tariff free, and even with WTO tariffs applied by the EU being able to undercut EU firms.
Slight misapprehension - there are no tariffs inside the single market. Increased prices come from other sources including:
  1. Import tariffs forcing up the prices for goods from the rest of the world, allowing inefficient EU producers to get away with higher prices for their goods rather than having to sell at world prices.
  2. Thinks like the CAP forcing up the price of food relative to the world market.
As such, the UK would be wise to negotiate a timescale for reducing EU tariffs to WTO levels - if they're removed at a stroke, EU forms will not have time to adjust. For example UK farmers are used to selling at the artificially high prices resulting from the CAP. They'll need 5 - 10 years to adjust their farming practices so they're competitive on the world market.

And that is one of the hidden benefits for leaving the EU - it will force UK firms to innovate and be more competitive.

Wordsmith
 
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