Brexit Phase Two - Trade

Sixty

ADC
Moderator
Book Reviewer
We have SNP MPs who have been quite vocal about Scotland should leave the EU
You're our own little sub-Trump aren't you, Andrew? Not one single current SNP MP has been vocal 'about Scotland should leave the EU' [sic]. You lying little tinker.
 
And a substantial public appetite that turned into a referendum win.
Pretty much - there had been indications for many years that much of the British public was becoming disenchanted with the EU. Which was totally ignored by those in the Westminster bubble.

Now, most people are either looking forward to leaving the EU - or resigned to it. My impression from talking to people at work, in the pub, to friends and so on is that the ardent remainers are a distinct but very vocal minority.

Even the recent anti-Brexit demonstration in London didn't attract a particularly big crowd. Were the people of the UK massively opposed to Brexit, I would expect regular 500,000+ demonstrations in all the major cities.

The silence is deafening.

Wordsmith
 
Blame the EU all you like, but many countries around the globe do deals with the EU. It can't be that hard (easiest deal ever springs to mind).
They deal with countries in the EU, I still reiterate the point that is seems rather arbitrary as to whether the EU actually controls trade subject to the TFEU or whether it merely accepts what is on offer to others. This is the first real test that it's ever faced. It's that aspect that I find far more important. One thing is certain is that the determination of the EU to control, slows down the whole process. It's fine and dandy crowing about the deals done now-where were they when we could have done with them. Nor do I recall either the recent French or German Trade expos being referred to as any other than German or French.
 
Yet another argument implying that NATO somehow exists in a vacuum somehow shielded from the wider political and economic situation in its member states. You pretty much expose the flaws in your own argument.

If Brexit, as widely predicted, causes economic damage across the EU then the potential exists that member states may miss NATO spending targets. As you say, that could see the ever unpredictable Trump take his toys home.

In addition Brexit is creating tensions between the UK and member states, with the potential for further tensions within the 27 as the new reality is dealt with. There are some in the UK who seem to relish a hostile stance towards other European states. We then have Trump who described the EU as a 'foe'.

Does the above situation make a robust, unified NATO response to any Russian aggression more or less likely?
Well lets get real here. Nato has always been what it's been but never what it is now with ex Warsaw Pact members now inside it. Trojan horses perhaps-who knows but Russia has been bellyaching like mad that EU is using Nato as a military resource. EU doesn't own NATO and wants to leave it or at least act independently of it. You wonder why Trump may want the US out of Nato and has upped the ante. The current political situation is a bit like magic cups, no one quite knows who does what or says what for whom. You honestly think Trump will want EU policy to hijack Nato when the Yanks are paying? Especially when he's made it clear that he views Europe as a competitior
 
Ever thought that the electoral commission may have been given a nod and a wink from an ongoing investigation? Don't think that they have but this is Posh George territory, the UK and US work very closely on some investigations.
You're not wrong about your final point. I have a formal commendation from the US DoJ for my part in a joint investigation.
 
The whip has May's full confidence apparently. She can't really afford to actual make any kind of command decisions at the minute, can she?
The sad truth is that she never really made any command decisions anyway. The one time when she did as Home Secretary - the sacking of Brodie Clark of UKBA - she ****** up and he won a handsome payoff via the Courts.
 
Last edited:
Quite an interesting day in the City today talking to one of the analysts from a US Investment bank. Since BAE sold its 20% stake in Airbus, the City has been expecting airbus to pull out of the UK for donkies, so the sabre rattling is causing no concern in London.

I asked about the current outlook and the response I got was UK manufacturing trading in the UK, not a problem. The drop in the pound places companies exporting into US, AsiaPac (in other words not Europe) - its good news. The only real impact is companies with supply chains cutting across the EU - they will have an issue, but with 5 years to relocate a manufacturing line, no-one is worrying, and those that are going to pull out were going to pull out anyway. A weaker pound also means labour costs are lower, so we are more competitive.

Some of you lot need to get out more
I think you're full of it and your city contacts don't understand manufacturing
 

skid2

LE
Book Reviewer
Pretty much - there had been indications for many years that much of the British public was becoming disenchanted with the EU. Which was totally ignored by those in the Westminster bubble.

Now, most people are either looking forward to leaving the EU - or resigned to it. My impression from talking to people at work, in the pub, to friends and so on is that the ardent remainers are a distinct but very vocal minority.

Even the recent anti-Brexit demonstration in London didn't attract a particularly big crowd. Were the people of the UK massively opposed to Brexit, I would expect regular 500,000+ demonstrations in all the major cities.

The silence is deafening.

Wordsmith
The problem is the Brexit vote where it voted leave most was in 7 out of the 10 poorest, furtherist and generally disenfranchised areas in the uk and Europe.

For some of these areas despite the glowing employment figures the final straw was immigration.

And where the targeted ads on immigration and the NHS were hammered home. That, the Turks are coming has been described as one of the most deliberately hateful and dishonest posters ever seen in British politics. ( if I can’t find it, then the source is me)

What you had was a protest vote. Had the question been ‘do you hate Westminster’ there would have been a landslide.
Europe wasn’t the problem it was London and the SE which was sucking up the money and the transport and travel infrastructure.
Does your city have an airport?
How many runways?

In the latter days of the vote there were seriously dodgy claims which wouldn’t have stood up in an ordinary election, but because there was a seriously limited timeframe. And a lot of new information flying around there was no time to check any of it.

You’re wrong about most people looking forward to leaving the Eu.
You’re also wrong about people wanting to get on with it. (That ones being pushed particularly hard because there’s nothing nice to look forward to leaving Europe. Higher costs, job losses, business resizing and disappearing)

Your other bit about the remainers being a distinct but vocal minority is also not being borne out.
There have been rashes of social media questionnaires and polls. People have been traipsing up and down the land having public meetings and talks. Mainly in areas which were particularly heavy duty leavers.
Again and again the answer comes back it was either a fucked off with the Westminster people or immigrants.

The leave campaign have removed a lot of anti immigration/UKIP ads and posters. That’s the next one where they’re going to be in the poo. At the time the whole campaign was too fast and furious to keep an eye on everything. Now that things have calmed down and they’ve been done for massively overspending.

The next one looks to be on some of the more ‘colourful’ statements and facts.

The social media questionnaires show what you fail to acknowledge. People are changing their views.
They’ve realised that Europe wasn’t the cause of their woes. They’ve realised they were sold a pup, lied to by the ads, the posters, the leave camp and almost everyone who talked them about it.
They’ve realised that no matter how bad things have been and are now. Brexit isn’t going to make it better. In fact as the fishing and farming people are finding out, it’s going to make things worse.

Now here’s the bad news.

If there’s another referendum, the young people will. I stress will. Come out and vote. What they will probably do, and I don’t mind telling you this as you won’t read it.

They’ll drop the voting age. And I’m sure you aren’t hanging out with the young uns or down with the kids........but they’re seriously keen on Europe. And they will vote, being all grown up and stuff and sticking it to the man.

They’re already being targeted by remainer youth and peer groups. It’s a bit like UKIP with girls and nice people all geared up to take it to the streets.

You see that green bit outside Westminster, that grass stuff where they do the outside
Stuff. Look who’s there, look who’s annoying some of the interviewers and interviewees. And they’re there all day every day. And they’ve no problem getting volunteers.

That last pro euro March there’s another one in October, feel free to get those numbers wrong to support your preconceptions.

And at the other end of the demographic scale. Those particular voters will not come out to vote again for a myriad of reasons.

I don’t expect a response.
The only reason the silence is deafening is because you aren’t listening. Or reading or getting out much.

Get those sneakers on, you may well be back on the streets again. I’d be interested in how the response differs this time round, but you’ll probably lie about it.
Everyone else. Sorry it’s so long, but he did ask. It’s been an interesting day.
 
The problem is the Brexit vote where it voted leave most was in 7 out of the 10 poorest, furtherist and generally disenfranchised areas in the uk and Europe.

For some of these areas despite the glowing employment figures the final straw was immigration.

And where the targeted ads on immigration and the NHS were hammered home. That, the Turks are coming has been described as one of the most deliberately hateful and dishonest posters ever seen in British politics. ( if I can’t find it, then the source is me)

What you had was a protest vote. Had the question been ‘do you hate Westminster’ there would have been a landslide.
Europe wasn’t the problem it was London and the SE which was sucking up the money and the transport and travel infrastructure.
Does your city have an airport?
How many runways?

In the latter days of the vote there were seriously dodgy claims which wouldn’t have stood up in an ordinary election, but because there was a seriously limited timeframe. And a lot of new information flying around there was no time to check any of it.

You’re wrong about most people looking forward to leaving the Eu.
You’re also wrong about people wanting to get on with it. (That ones being pushed particularly hard because there’s nothing nice to look forward to leaving Europe. Higher costs, job losses, business resizing and disappearing)

Your other bit about the remainers being a distinct but vocal minority is also not being borne out.
There have been rashes of social media questionnaires and polls. People have been traipsing up and down the land having public meetings and talks. Mainly in areas which were particularly heavy duty leavers.
Again and again the answer comes back it was either a fucked off with the Westminster people or immigrants.

The leave campaign have removed a lot of anti immigration/UKIP ads and posters. That’s the next one where they’re going to be in the poo. Attention time the whole campaign was too fast and furious to keep an eye on everything. Now that things have calmed down and they’ve been done for massively overspending.

The next one looks to be on some of the more ‘colourful’ statements and facts.

The social media questionnaires show what you fail to acknowledge. People are changing their views.
They’ve realised that Europe wasn’t the cause of their woes. They’ve realised they were sold a pup, lied to by the ads, the posters, the leave camp and almost everyone who talked them about it.
They’ve realised that no matter how bad things have been and are now. Brexit isn’t going to make it better. In fact as the fishing and farming people are finding out, it’s going to make things worse.

Now here’s the bad news.

If there’s another referendum, the young people will. I stress will. Come out and vote. What they will probably do, and I don’t mind telling you this as you won’t read it.

They’ll drop the voting age. And I’m sure you aren’t hanging out with the young uns or down with the kids........but they’re seriously keen on Europe. And they will vote, being all grown up and stuff and sticking it to the man.

They’re already being targeted by remainer youth and peer groups. It’s a bit like UKIP with girls and nice people all geared up to take it to the streets.

You see that green bit outside Westminster, that grass stuff where they do the outside
Stuff. Look who’s there, look who’s annoying some of the interviewers and interviewees. And they’re there all day every day. And they’ve no problem getting volunteers.

That last pro euro March there’s another one in October, feel free to get those numbers wrong to support your preconceptions.

And at the other end of the demographic scale. Those particular voters will not come out to vote again for a myriad of reasons.

I don’t expect a response.
The only reason the silence is deafening is because you aren’t listening. Or reading or getting out much.

Get those sneakers on, you may well be back on the streets again. I’d be interested in how the response differs this time round, but you’ll probably lie about it.
Everyone else. Sorry it’s so long, but he did ask. It’s been an interesting day.
Now that you have got that off of your chest, it's time for you to go to bed.
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
Bacongrills The NAAFI Bar 254
Good CO Brexit 349
ACAB The NAAFI Bar 470

Similar threads

Latest Threads

Top