Brexit Phase Two - Trade

You will have a dialog of the death trying to get anyone on the remain side to discuss where the EU will be in 10 - 20 years time. Extremely pertinent to the discussion, yet their reaction is to stick their fingers into their ears and go "la, la, la - can't hear you".

The reason for that is simple. A euro collapse is probable, as is a move towards further political and financial integration - with the corresponding erosion of the sovereignty of the EU's member states.

Wordsmith
Talk about Europe in the UK from 1970 to 2018 and the only conversation is on Trade, anything else is merely minor items and nothing to worry about.

Talk about Europe outside of the UK from 1970 to 2018, its ERMs, ever closer union, EU armies, single currencies, External Action services, EU foreign policy, ECJ, Commission, QMV etc etc with the final stop at a sovereign EU and nation states downgraded into a federal system.

The UK Establishment has been avoiding making the hard decision for decades and still can't decide how to square the two polar choices, which have always been the real question.
 

skid2

LE
Book Reviewer
What happens when you use those precious opt outs ? we have been gradually getting further and further away from the centre of power and since QMV, the distance was only going to get greater.

I respect your arguments on trade, but you need to consider more than simply trade and imagine what remain would mean in 10 - 30 years time, given the pace of change in the last 10-30 years.

Our opt outs suited us because our physicality. It suited us to keep,our own currency, schengen was unnecessary. We had control of our coastlines. We could have choen who to let in, we didn’t.

We didn’t really need control of our border as there wasn’t much happening and people who arrived here were content enough to stay in the south.

Where we scored in europe was our reputation for diplomacy, pragmatism, influence and soft power. Something Farage wouldn’t quite get. Brexits certainly hammered that flat.

We can have an ignormamous like Trump come over here trash. the PM and behave rudely to Her Maj

It’s ok for us to do it, (well, not disrespect Her Maj) We live here, but allowing some ignorant, ugly American to do it, just isn’t on.

No other president would have done it, no other president would have thought of doing such a thing. They had more respect for themselves and their country.

That’s the other thing, the pace of change. 10years to get out of Europe, 10years to realise what a mistake it was and another 10 to get back in.
 
Our opt outs suited us because our physicality. It suited us to keep,our own currency, schengen was unnecessary. We had control of our coastlines. We could have choen who to let in, we didn’t.

We didn’t really need control of our border as there wasn’t much happening and people who arrived here were content enough to stay in the south.

Where we scored in europe was our reputation for diplomacy, pragmatism, influence and soft power. Something Farage wouldn’t quite get. Brexits certainly hammered that flat.

We can have an ignormamous like Trump come over here trash. the PM and behave rudely to Her Maj

It’s ok for us to do it, (well, not disrespect Her Maj) We live here, but allowing some ignorant, ugly American to do it, just isn’t on.

No other president would have done it, no other president would have thought of doing such a thing. They had more respect for themselves and their country.

That’s the other thing, the pace of change. 10years to get out of Europe, 10years to realise what a mistake it was and another 10 to get back in.
Diplomacy/pragmatism/influence and soft power are by nature passive and by ignoring the abstract, you store up lots of problems for future generations and is the very reason we are in the bind we find ourselves now.

Trump/Farage are anathema to that approach, because they don't seek to be passive. The wit that is 'graculus' once said, this is big boy politics and he for once stumbled onto a point. To play on the big stage requires a bit of steel in the soul and our current breed of politicians are decidedly lacking in that department.

On your prediction, its perfectly possible someone will be able to sell the idea that a soft brexit delivers not very much and there is a golden tomorrow by re-joining, but that sir is the very definition of populism and I thought you didn't like telling lies, especially as we would have the euro and an even closer union.
 
Makes you wonder who's using all those food banks if so many people are earning a living!
As a resident of one of London's poorest Borough's I do often wonder that too.



Sent from my SM-A500FU using Tapatalk
 
Have you noticed Fanborough 2018 is overflowing with great news for the ‘doomed’ UK aerospace industry?
Do you believe Replica is secretly in service as well?
 
Apart from BoJo, Gove, Davis, Sajid Javid (lining himself up to replace May), JRM, the 60+ MP's of the ERM group, multiple other MP's and many of the party activists...

Wordsmith
And they're not pushing a leadership contest because?
 

skid2

LE
Book Reviewer
Diplomacy/pragmatism/influence and soft power are by nature passive and by ignoring the abstract, you store up lots of problems for future generations and is the very reason we are in the bind we find ourselves now.

Trump/Farage are anathema to that approach, because they don't seek to be passive. The wit that is 'graculus' once said, this is big boy politics and he for once stumbled onto a point. To play on the big stage requires a bit of steel in the soul and our current breed of politicians are decidedly lacking in that department.

On your prediction, its perfectly possible someone will be able to sell the idea that a soft brexit delivers not very much and there is a golden tomorrow by re-joining, but that sir is the very definition of populism and I thought you didn't like telling lies, especially as we would have the euro and an even closer union.
Did I mention the Euro? although there were times when the Brexit plan seemed to be going for parity. Farage got away with it because he was a one note wonder.
Who didn’t seem to do any work or achieve anything, except frighten Cameron and the Conservatives into a referendum.

As for the steel. That’s what diplomats and the F&CO is for, new boss, life goes on. Big smile while delivering a boot in the nuts. We lose that while exiting Europe. Friends, contacts, favours and kindnesses. That whole network thing needs to be nurtured if it’s not kept up, it withers and dies.

That’s whats going to be difficult to replace. Not the money, we can print loads more.
 

skid2

LE
Book Reviewer
If only we were in on this. Hurrah, we are.


‘Meanwhile, in a parallel universe, the EU and Japan are today signing the largest free trade deal either of them has ever negotiated. It will create an open trade zone covering nearly a 3rd of the world's GDP’
 
If only we were in on this. Hurrah, we are.


‘Meanwhile, in a parallel universe, the EU and Japan are today signing the largest free trade deal either of them has ever negotiated. It will create an open trade zone covering nearly a 3rd of the world's GDP’
Do keep up; PhotEx has already dissed that story with his razor-sharp analysis.
 
Never seen one, can you give me a clue where to find one outside some labour activists office?

Meanwhile

Germany and France’s growth DOWNGRADED by IMF as Trump tariffs take hold
They also cut it for India and Japan (probably others as well).

Oh, look, the IMF have also said the global economy could face a downturn
If threatened trade barriers become reality, global output could drop by about 0.5 percent below its projected level by 2020

Never mind, keep posting the Daily Express (missing) links.
 
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