Brexit Phase Two - Trade

dark blue passports seem very important to you remainers. Not sure why you despise national sovereignty. Some sort of chattering class guilt?

A globalised world means some sacrifice of national sovereignty for a shared benefit.

I'll continue apologising to visitors for the likes of you not recognising an obvious truth.
 
Why.. Surely those other nations around the world we wish to have trade agreements with could see we're being shafted and recognise we're standing up for the rights of our citizens.
Trump has just demonstrated how much that recognition is worth. "America First", remember? No country is going to give us an inch because we're "standing up for the rights of our citizens", because they don't give a damn about anyone other than their own citizens. "Let's take it easy on the Plucky Brits" doesn't get an American or Indian or Chinese President any votes... all you'll see is "they're desperate, let's see whether we can screw an even better deal out of them". If you think otherwise, you really are living in fairyland.

I thought a negotiation was a 2 way street.. it seems we say to Barnier we propose this idea..he then goes nope you take the EU's idea or fcuk off.
Before the referendum, the EU said: here are our four key freedoms. No, we won't negotiate on them. Cameron tried to negotiate, Cameron failed.

During the referendum, when the Remain campaign tried to point this out, the Leave campaign insisted that this was utter rubbish, "Project Fear", and that of course the EU would do a deal that gave us restrictions on freedom of movement, because it was in their interest to sell us cars and wine and stuff. When people started to ask how the Irish border was going to work, the Leave campaign had an attack of "La-La-La-can't hear you".

Surprise, surprise, the EU has been entirely consistent. They say: here are our four key freedoms. No, we won't negotiate on them. Oh, and how is the Irish border going to work?

Exactly why is the EU's failure to do what Brexiteers have demanded, in the face of all previous statements, been a surprise? How is it "their fault"? Please, do explain this...
 
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Before the referendum, the EU said: here are our four key freedoms. No, we won't negotiate on them. Cameron tried to negotiate, Cameron failed.

During the referendum, when the Remain campaign tried to point this out, the Leave campaign insisted that this was utter rubbish, "Project Fear", and that the EU would do a deal that gave us restrictions on freedom of movement, because it was in their interest to sell us cars and wine and stuff.

Surprise, surprise, the EU has been entirely consistent. They say: here are our four key freedoms. No, we won't negotiate on them.

Exactly why is the EU's failure to do what Brexiteers have demanded, in the face of all previous statements, been a surprise? How is it "their fault"? Please, do explain this...

I think it's because some people think we are somehow 'speshul'.

It's all rather embarrassing.
 
A globalised world means some sacrifice of national sovereignty for a shared benefit.

I'll continue apologising to visitors for the likes of you not recognising an obvious truth.
that globalisation is b*llocks? You've just supported @Gravelbell when he declared that the EU has unbreakable red lines but nations must kowtow to them. Surely if all this global p*sh involves give and take, the EU should also be subject to such truths.
 
shipping something halfway around the world, that could be made locally, slurping diesel, using resources... And this is sane to you? The way we should be going?

You didn't answer my question.

It's like you're arguing for the gravity model of trading more efficiently with our nearest neighbours, in which case I agree with you.
 
Barnier now saying we can't stay in the European Arrest Warrant scheme.

It just seems that they have a timetable pre-planned to announce we can't remain in anything post Brexit.. whats the point of negotiating.

Just tell them to fcuk off, shove their 40 billion quid leaving bill up their hoop and resort to a hard border with the Republic and WTO rules regarding trade.
You were all told this over two years ago.

It was pointed out a number of times that we'd lose full Europol membership, access to databases and the EAW during the referendum threads. It's was all laughed off and dismissed out of hand at the time. Why is it suddenly important now?

This isn't about a negotiating, it's about EU data protection laws and who can see what.
 

skid2

LE
Book Reviewer
that globalisation is b*llocks? You've just supported @Gravelbell when he declared that the EU has unbreakable red lines but nations must kowtow to them. Surely if all this global p*sh involves give and take, the EU should also be subject to such truths.

That's insanity, constant repetition is not going to help you one bit. You may not like it but globalisation is a fact and the world is getting smaller.
Which is why we would be in much better shape in rather than out.
 
I live here as a Loyalist so I may be slightly biased.. but I really don't give 2 fcuks anymore. I'm sick of my nation being held over a barrel by tin pot nations and unelected politicians in a foreign parliament.
Merkl, Macron, Michel et al are all elected. The EU fonctionnaires do their bidding.
 
that globalisation is b*llocks? You've just supported @Gravelbell when he declared that the EU has unbreakable red lines but nations must kowtow to them. Surely if all this global p*sh involves give and take, the EU should also be subject to such truths.

You've added to your post. The red lines in this case are HMG red lines. Which ones do you wish to see sacrificed next?
 
It's worth noting that the winning margin for the referendum - about 4% is roughly the same as would give a narrow win or a minority government in a General Election. Yet despite the small winning margin, no-one contests the legitimacy of the result.

Also, as repeatedly flagged in this thread, no one on the remain side wishes to project the shape of the EU in 10 years time and whether it would be in the UK's interest to belong to an institution committed to 'ever closer political and financial integration'. The equivalent of turning up at a railway station and getting on a train without any idea of the train's destination.

Wordsmith
They contest the result as soon as they enter the opposition benches. Culminating in an election in five years or less. The novelty here is that the opposition isn't opposing, both parties are split so the opposition is from within the government and the disaffected opposition members.

This is as fine an example of democracy at work as you could wish to see. You've probably put "democracy" on ignore though.
 

skid2

LE
Book Reviewer
I live here as a Loyalist so I may be slightly biased.. but I really don't give 2 fcuks anymore. I'm sick of my nation being held over a barrel by tin pot nations and unelected politicians in a foreign parliament.
The problem is, the only tin pot nations who have us over a barrel is our own in the shape of the DUP and the brexiters in England who would throw us under a bus if it's going to save their face all because of a stupid eurosceptic ideal.

You remember the Anglo Irish agreement, you thought that was a sell out, its nothing to Brexit.

Have a look at today's Ashcroft poll, a majority of brexiters would be happy to dump the north rather than stay in the single market or customs union.
Now it's turning into such a balls up they'll do anything to justify the last two years and attempt some sort of win for Brexit.
That's the sort of fucknuttery we're dealing with.
 
The problem is, the only tin pot nations who have us over a barrel is our own in the shape of the DUP and the brexiters in England who would throw us under a bus if it's going to save their face all because of a stupid eurosceptic ideal.

You remember the Anglo Irish agreement, you thought that was a sell out, its nothing to Brexit.

Have a look at today's Ashcroft poll, a majority of brexiters would be happy to dump the north rather than stay in the single market or customs union.
Now it's turning into such a balls up they'll do anything to justify the last two years and attempt some sort of win for Brexit.
That's the sort of fucknuttery we're dealing with.

There is no win from Brexit. It's now a matter of cutting the losses and trying to save face.
 
I think remain's argument revolves around it all being too much like hard work in order to leave... And scary. Like p*ss your pants scary. Do remember that scene in gladiator? They are about to enter the provincial arena (filmed at el hem, Tunisia) chained in pairs, one with a sword and the other sporting a shield. Anyway long story short a really hensch, skilled and confident gladiator (we'll call him Leavex) is chained to some craven halfwit (Remainus). Remainis p*sses himself before entering, holds Leavex back before being struck down. Leavex cuts himself loose and uses his chain as a tool to secure his success.
Did you get that from a paper you don't read?

I reckon that people who voted remain have had a lifetime of clearing up the train crashes caused by people with grandiose plans and no fecking idea.
 
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