Brexit Phase Two - Trade

Well he, and the others who oppose Brexit, shouldn't try and bring the government down.
Now is the time for all good men etc etc
Bringing the government down will put the country into even more of a shitstorm than it is already in. A new election this close to leaving would mean restarting the negotiations and I'm pretty sure the EU, already pissed off at the way UK is handling things, wouldn't put up with that.
It would, probably, mean a sudden cliff edge exit and no agreements put in place. All the organisations we belong to because of EU membership, all the trade deals with other countries because of EU membership and all the regulation bodies we belong to gone in a flash.
Probably another coalition government of some sort (and look how well the last one turned out) and yet more dithering.
The remain side on the government benches should now step back, say we've got the right to have a say on the final deal and we won't hold up progress any longer.

It was over 6 months ago (Dec 7th 2017) when the EU said they were in agreement with the 3 things they said must be sorted before trade. The so-called divorce bill, the rights of EU citizens after Brexit and the border agreement between the Irelands. It then went Pete Tong when a minor party propping up the government said we can't treat NI differently to the rest of the UK even though there are many things that happen, or don't happen, in NI compared to the rest of UK.
If we end up with another minority government, a coalition or (shudder) a Corbyn led one then we might as well forget about discussing trade, membership of organisations and regulatory bodies.
It's now time to get the hell on with it and there won't be a good deal for UK with all the bloody infighting going on in a government that is supposed to be doing things for the best of the country.
If the remain side don't like the way the government is handling it (and they've had a load of obstacles put in their way) then they should leave the government and stand as independents or walk.
Given the choice between cliff-edge and staying in, staying in looks like the smart choice.
I think he playing his hand well


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Fortunately most people I met ion the doorstep were doing their best to wade through the BS put by both sides and come to an reasonably informed decision.

Wordsmith
This is a truly wild assertion. Nobody took an informed decision. Nobody knew the consequences. How much of your time discussing the pros and cons on the doorstep did you spend speaking about solutions to the Irish border issue? Or the need to remain in some European agencies, or whether anyone was talking about leaving the single market, or whether two years was realistic, or the complexity of international trade treaties, or whether a narrow majority would be sufficient to carry such a monumental change through? I had all sorts of concerns, but nothing on the scale of what has come to pass.

That such a massive choice was forced on us with so little credible information was a truly epic failure of democracy and we are paying the price in full. I have always had faith that our democracy is stable and generally steers in the right direction - the decision to decided membership of the EU by a short notice referendum completely destroyed that. Leave or remain our naivety was stunning.
 
@One_of_the_strange posted the source report from the aviation industry body.

The UK is electing to leave EASA, not the other way round.

If you believe the spin in that shite rag, there's no hope for you. But you don't seem to be very bright

You post rather a lot of links from the DE and DM for someone who claims not to read them...
I've never claimed to have not read them. You broken brained imbecile.

I post links from the DM because it is easy to do. And legal unlike the times etc.

I rarely post links to the Express. But then, you so f*cking clueless you don't know what year it is let alone what I post.

As for all this 'we are leaving them' drivel. Yes, we are. It is still pretty important that both sides work to make the split work. Just like a divorce. As I've said before, the EU is playing the scorned wife, listening to her harridan cronies (seen it all before, 'go on take him to the cleaners, call CSA', CSA then promptly lower the payments being made :) )

That is all.
 
To back this up, take a browse back through the early Brexit threads and have a look at the number of "it's easy", "just take over existing EU law" type posts from quite sensible posters. I don't know if you ever wrote anything like that yourself @Wordsmith - I doubt it actually, but plenty did.
 

Wordsmith

LE
Book Reviewer
Given the choice between cliff-edge and staying in, staying in looks like the smart choice.
As I've said before, the antics of the remain side, be it Gina Miller, the House of Lords or Tory rebels like Ken Clarke, have made in increasingly likely that we'll do a hard Brexit. May runs away from problems and putting more in her way has made it even less likely that she'll conclude the negotiations successfully.

Proposing staying in the EU would be electoral suicide for the Tories. A majority of those that voted opted for leave. Ignoring the result of the referendum would result in the Tories being reduced to 50 - 100 seats in the next GE - together with a Corbyn government. So that's not an option the Tories will take.

And Article 50 is absolutely clear. If, by March of next year, no agreement has been concluded with the EU, we leave without an agreement and fall back on WTO rules. That is EU law - and Westminster law is subordinate to EU law, so there's nothing Westminster can do to change that date.

Wordsmith
 
Nobody took an informed decision. Nobody knew the consequences.
Many I feel took the decision based on what they felt. That of course didn't stop the remainers being name callers against those who voted leave.

That said, the arguments for staying in just don't stack up. For the very thing you say above. Nobody knows the consequences of leaving, but similarly no-one knows the consequences for staying. It's just assumed that staying will be good... and easier.
 
I've never claimed to have not read them. You broken brained imbecile.

I post links from the DM because it is easy to do. And legal unlike the times etc.

I rarely post links to the Express. But then, you so f*cking clueless you don't know what year it is let alone what I post.

As for all this 'we are leaving them' drivel. Yes, we are. It is still pretty important that both sides work to make the split work. Just like a divorce. As I've said before, the EU is playing the scorned wife, listening to her harridan cronies (seen it all before, 'go on take him to the cleaners, call CSA', CSA then promptly lower the payments being made :) )

That is all.
Talking out of your hoop.

The situation has been done to death in aviation thread, yet as can be said for the entire brexit plethora of issues, you choose to bury your head in the sand and act like the victim.

Have you been divorced I take it?
 
As I've said before, the antics of the remain side, be it Gina Miller, the House of Lords or Tory rebels like Ken Clarke, have made in increasingly likely that we'll do a hard Brexit. May runs away from problems and putting more in her way has made it even less likely that she'll conclude the negotiations successfully.

Proposing staying in the EU would be electoral suicide for the Tories. A majority of those that voted opted for leave. Ignoring the result of the referendum would result in the Tories being reduced to 50 - 100 seats in the next GE - together with a Corbyn government. So that's not an option the Tories will take.

And Article 50 is absolutely clear. If, by March of next year, no agreement has been concluded with the EU, we leave without an agreement and fall back on WTO rules. That is EU law - and Westminster law is subordinate to EU law, so there's nothing Westminster can do to change that date.

Wordsmith
Remain were completely convinced of their rights. That they were right and that THEY had a right to stay in the EU.

They could have possibly sorted out a better solution but instead went full on toddler mode.
 

Wordsmith

LE
Book Reviewer
To back this up, take a browse back through the early Brexit threads and have a look at the number of "it's easy", "just take over existing EU law" type posts from quite sensible posters. I don't know if you ever wrote anything like that yourself @Wordsmith - I doubt it actually, but plenty did.
There was time to do a lot of that had the process have been pursued energetically from the start. We need to prepare systematically for a hard Brexit from the off. That would have allowed us to cater for the worst case and simultaneously put pressure on the EU for a negotiated settlement.

The biggest mistake the Tories have made in the last 40 - 50 years was putting a notorious ditherer in as PM. Previous time has been wasted, the Tory party is at war within itself because May cannot provide strong leadership and it looks like the time window to negotiate an agreement is closing fast.

The only think that can now save the Tory party from itself (and by extension the country from major problems) is by binning May within weeks and putting someone in charge who will confront problems.

It's not as it this problem has come out of the blue - I've been flagging it for months. The Tory party is now a a crucial moment in its history. Fail to act and they will be consigned to electoral irrelevance for a generation.

Wordsmith
 
To back this up, take a browse back through the early Brexit threads and have a look at the number of "it's easy", "just take over existing EU law" type posts from quite sensible posters. I don't know if you ever wrote anything like that yourself @Wordsmith - I doubt it actually, but plenty did.
It was going to be a walk in the park. Since people knew exactly what they were voting for they knew it was Jurrasic Park.
 

skid2

LE
Book Reviewer
There was time to do a lot of that had the process have been pursued energetically from the start. We need to prepare systematically for a hard Brexit from the off. That would have allowed us to cater for the worst case and simultaneously put pressure on the EU for a negotiated settlement.

The biggest mistake the Tories have made in the last 40 - 50 years was putting a notorious ditherer in as PM. Previous time has been wasted, the Tory party is at war within itself because May cannot provide strong leadership and it looks like the time window to negotiate an agreement is closing fast.

The only think that can now save the Tory party from itself (and by extension the country from major problems) is by binning May within weeks and putting someone in charge who will confront problems.

It's not as it this problem has come out of the blue - I've been flagging it for months. The Tory party is now a a crucial moment in its history. Fail to act and they will be consigned to electoral irrelevance for a generation.

Wordsmith

The biggest mistake the Tories made was allowing the eurosceptics first houseroom, then presence followed by a foothold.
Europe has been its Achilles heel, it’s the inbuilt opposition it’s never been able to shake. Even Maggie couldn’t shake it, Major detested it and it grew under Cameron having been encouraged by that IDS fellow.

They don’t want strong leadership all they want is May to lead into the Brexit wasteland and take the blame for it.

Should the terminally stupid occur after next March you can be sure not only will May do the can carrying for it, but the body of Cameron will be exhumed for an added kicking as everyone runs for cover.
 
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