Brexit Phase Two - Trade

Brexit dividend? Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha .....gasp....ha ha ha ha ha ha...wheeeeze....ha ha ha. Give them control...ha ha ha...20 billion....just like that. The ghost of Tommy Cooper lives...:rofl:
 
EU threatens to ground all flights after Brexit | Daily Mail Online

Looks like Brussels is continuing to exacerbate Brexit, even for themselves.
@One_of_the_strange posted the source report from the aviation industry body.

The UK is electing to leave EASA, not the other way round.

If you believe the spin in that shite rag, there's no hope for you. But you don't seem to be very bright

You post rather a lot of links from the DE and DM for someone who claims not to read them...
 
Grieve digging his heels in

Government 'could collapse' over Brexit deal

He implied rebels would vote against it this week: "I'm absolutely sure that the group is quite determined that the meaningful vote pledge, which was given to us, has got to be fulfilled."

He added: "The alternative is that we've all got to sign up to a slavery clause now, saying whatever the government does, when it comes to January, however potentially catastrophic it might be for my constituents and my country, I'm signing in blood now that I will follow over the edge of a cliff, and that I can tell you, I am not prepared to do."
Well he, and the others who oppose Brexit, shouldn't try and bring the government down.
Now is the time for all good men etc etc
Bringing the government down will put the country into even more of a shitstorm than it is already in. A new election this close to leaving would mean restarting the negotiations and I'm pretty sure the EU, already pissed off at the way UK is handling things, wouldn't put up with that.
It would, probably, mean a sudden cliff edge exit and no agreements put in place. All the organisations we belong to because of EU membership, all the trade deals with other countries because of EU membership and all the regulation bodies we belong to gone in a flash.
Probably another coalition government of some sort (and look how well the last one turned out) and yet more dithering.
The remain side on the government benches should now step back, say we've got the right to have a say on the final deal and we won't hold up progress any longer.

It was over 6 months ago (Dec 7th 2017) when the EU said they were in agreement with the 3 things they said must be sorted before trade. The so-called divorce bill, the rights of EU citizens after Brexit and the border agreement between the Irelands. It then went Pete Tong when a minor party propping up the government said we can't treat NI differently to the rest of the UK even though there are many things that happen, or don't happen, in NI compared to the rest of UK.
If we end up with another minority government, a coalition or (shudder) a Corbyn led one then we might as well forget about discussing trade, membership of organisations and regulatory bodies.
It's now time to get the hell on with it and there won't be a good deal for UK with all the bloody infighting going on in a government that is supposed to be doing things for the best of the country.
If the remain side don't like the way the government is handling it (and they've had a load of obstacles put in their way) then they should leave the government and stand as independents or walk.
 
Bringing the government down will put the country into even more of a shitstorm than it is already in. A new election this close to leaving would mean restarting the negotiations and I'm pretty sure the EU, already pissed off at the way UK is handling things, wouldn't put up with that.
It would, probably, mean a sudden cliff edge exit and no agreements put in place. All the organisations we belong to because of EU membership, all the trade deals with other countries because of EU membership and all the regulation bodies we belong to gone in a flash.
Ahem.

Ministers fear UK will crash out of EU without a deal because there isn't time to pass new Brexit laws
Britain could crash out of the EU without a deal if negotiation talks are not finished in October because there won't be enough time to agree new laws, ministers fear. Senior Government figures including minister Suella Braverman held crisis talks with Commons leader Andrea Leadsom this week to thrash out a plan, amid growing fears Parliament won't be able to enact Brexit before deadline day next March.

Without the passage of the Withdrawal and Implementation Bill the UK could be forced out without a deal because there would be no legal mechanism to underpin the new agreement with the EU.
Largely down to May who's run away from problems and squandered time. So causing the government to fall would pretty well guarantee a hard Brexit as a GE would eat up any remaining time to finish negotiating a deal.

Wordsmith
 
One of the things that SHOULD happen, post-brexit, is the government, should be refocusing the economy to a different model.
Whether refocusing is a good or bad idea, it is unrelated to Brexit. It’s back to blaming all the UK’s self-inflicted ills on the EU


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Both sides made shit up before the vote. It wasn't confined to the Brexit side. Remember Osborne saying we'd need an emergency budget if we votes for Brexit.

As I've said before, the politicians and commentators on both sides of the argument did the country a disservice. Instead of an informed debate of the pros and cons of Brexit, we got a war of soundbites.

Fortunately most people I met ion the doorstep were doing their best to wade through the BS put by both sides and come to an reasonably informed decision.

Wordsmith
True, but a somewhat false equivalence. Osborne was being a drama queen, but falling off a cliff right after the vote was a possibility. But the currency only crashed 15% and what has happened is a slow decline.

The outright lies of Leave have been done to death


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Well he, and the others who oppose Brexit, shouldn't try and bring the government down.
Now is the time for all good men etc etc
Bringing the government down will put the country into even more of a shitstorm than it is already in. A new election this close to leaving would mean restarting the negotiations and I'm pretty sure the EU, already pissed off at the way UK is handling things, wouldn't put up with that.
It would, probably, mean a sudden cliff edge exit and no agreements put in place. All the organisations we belong to because of EU membership, all the trade deals with other countries because of EU membership and all the regulation bodies we belong to gone in a flash.
Probably another coalition government of some sort (and look how well the last one turned out) and yet more dithering.
The remain side on the government benches should now step back, say we've got the right to have a say on the final deal and we won't hold up progress any longer.

It was over 6 months ago (Dec 7th 2017) when the EU said they were in agreement with the 3 things they said must be sorted before trade. The so-called divorce bill, the rights of EU citizens after Brexit and the border agreement between the Irelands. It then went Pete Tong when a minor party propping up the government said we can't treat NI differently to the rest of the UK even though there are many things that happen, or don't happen, in NI compared to the rest of UK.
If we end up with another minority government, a coalition or (shudder) a Corbyn led one then we might as well forget about discussing trade, membership of organisations and regulatory bodies.
It's now time to get the hell on with it and there won't be a good deal for UK with all the bloody infighting going on in a government that is supposed to be doing things for the best of the country.
If the remain side don't like the way the government is handling it (and they've had a load of obstacles put in their way) then they should leave the government and stand as independents or walk.
Given the choice between cliff-edge and staying in, staying in looks like the smart choice.
I think he playing his hand well


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Fortunately most people I met ion the doorstep were doing their best to wade through the BS put by both sides and come to an reasonably informed decision.

Wordsmith
This is a truly wild assertion. Nobody took an informed decision. Nobody knew the consequences. How much of your time discussing the pros and cons on the doorstep did you spend speaking about solutions to the Irish border issue? Or the need to remain in some European agencies, or whether anyone was talking about leaving the single market, or whether two years was realistic, or the complexity of international trade treaties, or whether a narrow majority would be sufficient to carry such a monumental change through? I had all sorts of concerns, but nothing on the scale of what has come to pass.

That such a massive choice was forced on us with so little credible information was a truly epic failure of democracy and we are paying the price in full. I have always had faith that our democracy is stable and generally steers in the right direction - the decision to decided membership of the EU by a short notice referendum completely destroyed that. Leave or remain our naivety was stunning.
 
@One_of_the_strange posted the source report from the aviation industry body.

The UK is electing to leave EASA, not the other way round.

If you believe the spin in that shite rag, there's no hope for you. But you don't seem to be very bright

You post rather a lot of links from the DE and DM for someone who claims not to read them...
I've never claimed to have not read them. You broken brained imbecile.

I post links from the DM because it is easy to do. And legal unlike the times etc.

I rarely post links to the Express. But then, you so f*cking clueless you don't know what year it is let alone what I post.

As for all this 'we are leaving them' drivel. Yes, we are. It is still pretty important that both sides work to make the split work. Just like a divorce. As I've said before, the EU is playing the scorned wife, listening to her harridan cronies (seen it all before, 'go on take him to the cleaners, call CSA', CSA then promptly lower the payments being made :) )

That is all.
 
To back this up, take a browse back through the early Brexit threads and have a look at the number of "it's easy", "just take over existing EU law" type posts from quite sensible posters. I don't know if you ever wrote anything like that yourself @Wordsmith - I doubt it actually, but plenty did.
 
Given the choice between cliff-edge and staying in, staying in looks like the smart choice.
As I've said before, the antics of the remain side, be it Gina Miller, the House of Lords or Tory rebels like Ken Clarke, have made in increasingly likely that we'll do a hard Brexit. May runs away from problems and putting more in her way has made it even less likely that she'll conclude the negotiations successfully.

Proposing staying in the EU would be electoral suicide for the Tories. A majority of those that voted opted for leave. Ignoring the result of the referendum would result in the Tories being reduced to 50 - 100 seats in the next GE - together with a Corbyn government. So that's not an option the Tories will take.

And Article 50 is absolutely clear. If, by March of next year, no agreement has been concluded with the EU, we leave without an agreement and fall back on WTO rules. That is EU law - and Westminster law is subordinate to EU law, so there's nothing Westminster can do to change that date.

Wordsmith
 
Nobody took an informed decision. Nobody knew the consequences.
Many I feel took the decision based on what they felt. That of course didn't stop the remainers being name callers against those who voted leave.

That said, the arguments for staying in just don't stack up. For the very thing you say above. Nobody knows the consequences of leaving, but similarly no-one knows the consequences for staying. It's just assumed that staying will be good... and easier.
 
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