Brexit Phase Two - Trade

s Tim Shipman details in his book Fall Out, Britain’s red lines for the Europe talks — ruling out membership of the customs union and the single market as well as ending the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice — were drawn up virtually single-handedly by Nick Timothy, the prime minister’s unelected former chief of staff. “The cabinet certainly had no chance to debate them,” Shipman writes.
So lets just recap. Juncker says we can't stay in the CU or the SM, Cameron panicks and says what do I do? Timothy says oh just say you accept those terms and it suddenly it becomes Government Policy.
 
One of the main reasons for that is the shackles that the EU placed on the UK by telling them that until formally leaving at the end of the transition period in March 2019 the UK cannot sign up to any trade deals. Until that is lifted then the Ministers can't announce any deals.
Do you really think that there are actually any unannounced, but sort-of discussed deals (not negotiated, obviously) just waiting for the Glorious Day? I don't, because that would require competence.

This is a Cabinet that refuses to tell anyone what it actually wants from the negotiations, with the related suspicions that they don't know or can't agree. For instance: hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic? Yes or No? Because claims of "oh, we'll solve it with magic wands, pixie dust, and wishing REALLY hard technology that we haven't got and don't understand" tend to suggest that it's a politician trying desperately not to admit that either choice is going to upset people, not work, or both.

My belief is that the smart, ambitious ones will actually avoid toppling Mrs May, because then they'd actually have to solve what looks unsolvable. They'll wait until after it all goes horribly wrong, and about twenty seconds after she can safely be blamed, she'll be butchered.

The less-likely option is that a stupid or desperate ambitious one will decide that their best chance is to jump the gun on the other contenders - if you're Rees-Mogg or Gove, you aren't going to beat Johnson after the fiasco; but you might stand a chance if you step up just beforehand. I don't know how well the mechanics of the 1922 Committee would work for that...

Of course, there's always the chance that an unambitious one will be pushed forward for the top job, as the "Night Watchman". Become leader, declare that a General Election is the only choice, take the blame for losing said election*, then resign to make way for the Chosen One who leads the fight-back five years later against Corbyn.

* Doesn't always run to plan - see John Major. Underappreciated, I always thought. It's easy to be PM with a huge majority, rather more difficult if you're hanging on a DUP thread and beset by "those b*stards" (IDS, Redwood, et al).
 
yes, mate. You believe that.
I'm happy to believe it. If you believe that Brexit and the distasteful rhetoric had no impact on triggering Mair's actioning his fantasies I can't help you.

In fact I'm surprised that one with such and active imagination fails to connect the rhetoric of Brexit with it. You might want to read your own links as well BTW.

"The coverage of Michael Adebowale – one of Lee Rigby's killers – did not focus on his history of mental illness. It focused on his ideology." There's no doubt that Adebowale was less than stable, you've of course made this point on these boards?

Mentalists are emboldened by the rhetoric from those they view as their peers and anything which supports their fantasies helps.

One Tory MP said he was afraid of voting how he wanted yesterday because of death threats to his family. Do you think that the rhetoric from the papers you post links from regularly encourages threats like this?
 

Wordsmith

LE
Book Reviewer
My belief is that the smart, ambitious ones will actually avoid toppling Mrs May, because then they'd actually have to solve what looks unsolvable. They'll wait until after it all goes horribly wrong, and about twenty seconds after she can safely be blamed, she'll be butchered.
I suspect they won't wait long. The Tories will want to win the 2022 GE, and they'll (a) want to minimise the damage from May's dithering and (b) give the new leader as long as possible to bed in, unite the party behind them and start to build a lead in the polls for the next GE.

Bearing in mind the Brexit timetable, I wonder if May will be quietly advised to stand down after the current legislation is through parliament (or face a leadership challenge). The Tories could then appoint an interim leader to take us past March of next year (letting us finish the Brexit negotiations) before holding a full-blown leadership contest.

One thing's for sure - the longer the Tories wait to remove May, the greater the odds are of Brexit chaos and Corbyn getting in on the back of it.

Wordsmith
 
Ah but that won't necessarily be Nato, Now were the EU to abrogate the liability to Nato.........
Never going to happen. The EU has never taken defence seriously. Always best to Fanny about, let somebody else pay for it and sort it out and then start sending german company’s in to pick up the lucrative support contracts.
 
I'm happy to believe it. If you believe that Brexit and the distasteful rhetoric had no impact on triggering Mair's actioning his fantasies I can't help you.

In fact I'm surprised that one with such and active imagination fails to connect the rhetoric of Brexit with it. You might want to read your own links as well BTW.

"The coverage of Michael Adebowale – one of Lee Rigby's killers – did not focus on his history of mental illness. It focused on his ideology." There's no doubt that Adebowale was less than stable, you've of course made this point on these boards?

Mentalists are emboldened by the rhetoric from those they view as their peers and anything which supports their fantasies helps.

One Tory MP said he was afraid of voting how he wanted yesterday because of death threats to his family. Do you think that the rhetoric from the papers you post links from regularly encourages threats like this?
I’m also aware that Blair is coordinating a PR campaign and he knows getting people feeling sorry for people who supports his position is a good way of influencing people.

If an MP feels so threatened then they grow a pair of balls and report it to the police. If only we had the ability to track people who make threats on social media.

There was a time MPs stood up to what they believed in and quite a few lost their lives because of it.

We seem to be having a significantly ramped up media machine pushing the bullsh*t line of all people who voted for brexit are xenophobic neonnazis.

I know many of my close friends who tend to read the Guardian are in their own little bubble and cannot understand why I voted to leave the EU even though they don’t consider me racist.
 
I'm happy to believe it. If you believe that Brexit and the distasteful rhetoric had no impact on triggering Mair's actioning his fantasies I can't help you.

In fact I'm surprised that one with such and active imagination fails to connect the rhetoric of Brexit with it. You might want to read your own links as well BTW.

"The coverage of Michael Adebowale – one of Lee Rigby's killers – did not focus on his history of mental illness. It focused on his ideology." There's no doubt that Adebowale was less than stable, you've of course made this point on these boards?

Mentalists are emboldened by the rhetoric from those they view as their peers and anything which supports their fantasies helps.

One Tory MP said he was afraid of voting how he wanted yesterday because of death threats to his family. Do you think that the rhetoric from the papers you post links from regularly encourages threats like this?
what has adebowale got to do with Brexit and Jo Cox? The killer just reached a point where he felt confident enough to act. The end. He'd have reached that point at some point regardless of Brexit. Ditto the people who send threats. Are they emboldened? Maybe. On the other hand are they needled by things like remainers branding leavers (for example) thick, xenophobic, etc, etc. You surprise me that you don't see the blatant emotional capital being leveraged by blaming the death of a wife and mother (then labour mp) on brexit. As well as being thick
racist bigots and most like poor and northern, leavers get to be accessories to murder too.
 
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isn't your 'evidence' just selected facts ?
@Graculus’ normal evidence now seems to be somebody else’s tweet with his own comment about although nobody has ever heard of the person we should believe grac when he says they really know what they’re talking about.
 
Who would want the job.

The chalice isn't just poisoned, it's got booby traps, gypsy/voodoo curses and is more radioactive than Nagasaki circa 1945
I wonder what would happen if she just said "Fcuk this for a game of soldiers, I don't get paid enough to deal with this sh!t!" and resigned?
 
D

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@Graculus’ normal evidence now seems to be somebody else’s tweet with his own comment about although nobody has ever heard of the person we should believe grac when he says they really know what they’re talking about.
I rarely, actually, hear HIS opinion on anything. He gives a lot of other peoples opinions, masquerading as fact, to prove he is righteous, in a world of chaos. And, sometimes, he adopts a sarcastic condescending tone.

If I wanted to debate with an Alexa remain bot, he does a good impression.
 
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