Brexit Phase Two - Trade

Auld-Yin

ADC
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Reviews Editor
It's all negotiations still, the option to walk away is always there

To pretend otherwise is just ignoring reality
To actually think that is a viable option for any Party wishing to remain in British politics is just ignoring reality!
 
You’re contradicting yourself again.

The mandate is to leave the EU, which will happen, as per the mandate.

Agreements outside of this are outwith the scope of the mandate and therefore entirely achievable if desired, as you have noted.

You may have noticed there are some clues in the A50 process to enable this.

You may have also noticed some clues in both the Withdrawal Agreement and in TMs speeches.

Best of luck. ^^
Lots of words which mean nothing.

The Government has a mandate to negotiate Brexit. Whatever's agreed currently needs no further assent therefore, by definition, a mandate for it exists. Even if Parliament insisted on assent, the EU as a whole would have to agree any revisions within the defined timescale. In the event of non-agreement, the default position is hard Brexit.

That's the position as understood by those required to understand this stuff professionally. If you want to argue otherwise, I'll leave you to it.
 
Politics isn't frog-boiling - you can't boil political ideas to death. Brexit wouldn't die, it would simply fester, with the main outcome being a further decline in trust in politicians and in the political process, which wouldn't do anyone any good. I would also posit that moderate Remainers fully appreciate the implications and most of them are too responsible to want to prevail in that manner.
I never said it would die but the will of the people is fickle, politics is a long game. As some chap from Brotherton keeps on reminding us.

As I've said, I believe that we must leave, the manner of leaving is the important part. Amusing as it would be to watch the bright but short political career following Mogg's last charge, I'd prefer not see the crap visited on my fellow brits.
 
Mr Farage begged to differ.

Farage raises second referendum prospect

I suspect he's changed his mind. No problem, he's allowed to, as is A-Y in respect of Scottish independence, as are others.
Farage and the UKIP protest party continuing to protest?

Are you suggesting he's of any influence over Parliament?

Despite a distinct lack of MPs?

His begging to differ is irrelevant and will continue to be so, unless the Tories decide they can't / won't wear the stolen clothes.

The SNP have changed their minds as a collective, it seems.

They don't want independence, they want to integrate with and be dependant on the EU.

Which is a fair one.
 

Wordsmith

LE
Book Reviewer
Because that is not the case. You’re confusing hard Brexit with the mandate to leave the EU.
Hard Brexit happens automatically if we don't reach agreement with the EU - it's legally mandated in Article 50.

We irrevocably leave the EU in March of next year. The only questions are can we reach an agreement before that time and (if we do) what will the terms of any transition period be?

Article 50
3. The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in paragraph 2, unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned, unanimously decides to extend this period.
As you will see from the text of the treaty, we can leave anytime up to and including the two years after notification. After that leaving is automatic in the form of a hard Brexit.

The chances of all 28 states involved agreeing to extend the 2 year period is remote.

Wordsmith
 
Bear in mind Auld Yin is notorious for being unable to evidence his point.
Or willing to either apologise and withdraw or bet on statements he boldly makes about others. ;-)
 

Joker62

ADC
Book Reviewer
All parties are on the horns of a dilemma after the Brexit vote.
  • The Tories have elected a leader who couldn't negotiate her way out of a paper bag.
  • Many in Labour are itching to oppose Brexit but don't want to commit electoral suicide by doing so.
  • Limp Dem figures like Cleag are going around saying the Leave voters were to stupid to understand the consequences of Brexit. P*ssing off half the electorate will really help the Limp Dem voting figures
  • The SNP have decided that Brexit is a chance to re-run the once in a lifetime referendum from 4 years ago and are hacking off a lot of the Scottish electorate for that reason.
All the parties are suffering from an inability to adjust to the new political landscape.

Wordsmith
I was out and about on Sunday, stopped for a beer in one of the local pubs and a bright yellow cab turns up with "Vote Simon Hughes" written on the side. Anyhoo, door opens up and this old git pops out for a bit of glad handing, walks over and stretches his hand out, I said "hello Ming", he replies as he takes his hand away before shaking "you could at least get my name right", OH then informs me it was Vince Cable", oh well, close escape.
 
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I never said it would die but the will of the people is fickle, politics is a long game. As some chap from Brotherton keeps on reminding us.

As I've said, I believe that we must leave, the manner of leaving is the important part. Amusing as it would be to watch the bright but short political career following Mogg's last charge, I'd prefer not see the crap visited on my fellow brits.
It is a long game and I suspect that it'll dominate the political landscape for the next decade at least and, in the long term, redefine the shape and nature of the three main UK parties.
 
Farage and the UKIP protest party continuing to protest?

Are you suggesting he's of any influence over Parliament?

Despite a distinct lack of MPs?

His begging to differ is irrelevant and will continue to be so, unless the Tories decide they can't / won't wear the stolen clothes.

The SNP have changed their minds as a collective, it seems.

They don't want independence, they want to integrate with and be dependant on the EU.

Which is a fair one.
He had influence in the referendum, as I said, he's probably changed his mind about his statement, or mebbe's not. A narrow victory would only need a rerun if it was for Remain is probably what he meant, because he a bit of a hypocrite.

But, the point is, he's allowed to change his mind. So not irrelevant at all.

The SNP haven't changed their mind collectively, they campaigned for independence as a sovereign member of the EU. HTH.
 
Hard Brexit happens automatically if we don't reach agreement with the EU - it's legally mandated in Article 50.

We irrevocably leave the EU in March of next year.
If there's no extension, which would need the unanimous agreement of all EU countries. HTH.

Bold font is so strident, calm down, you'll have an aneurysm.
 
He had influence in the referendum, as I said, he's probably changed his mind about his statement, or mebbe's not. A narrow victory would only need a rerun if it was for Remain is probably what he meant, because he a bit of a hypocrite.

But, the point is, he's allowed to change his mind. So not irrelevant at all.

The SNP haven't changed their mind collectively, they campaigned for independence as a sovereign member of the EU. HTH.
And the EU told them they would not automatically join the EU, but would have to apply when they met the conditions like anyone else

Can the EU afford another country being a drain on it's resources, would it want one right now ?
 
It's all negotiations still, the option to walk away is always there

To pretend otherwise is just ignoring reality
We could declare war on the EU MS if we so choose.

I'd say that a government having the balls to do either seems just as likely
 

Wordsmith

LE
Book Reviewer
And the EU told them they would not automatically join the EU, but would have to apply when they met the conditions like anyone else

Can the EU afford another country being a drain on it's resources, would it want one right now ?
Would that also be the Scotland that would be able to keep the pound after independence, together with the use of the Bank of England as a lender of last resort? The Scotland that was going to keep on building ships for the RN after independence, would not have a hard border with the UK and could use North Sea oil to pay for free unicorns for all after independence? And would be able to have its share of the UK's assets without assuming its share of the UK's liabilities?

That Scotland?

Wordsmith
 
And the EU told them they would not automatically join the EU, but would have to apply when they met the conditions like anyone else

Can the EU afford another country being a drain on it's resources, would it want one right now ?
Dunno, not down to me, or you. Looked at the price of Brent crude recently?

Nippie sweetie has lost A-Y because she's a bit of a soshulist an all that, he much preferred the Braveheart fibs of Eck. IMO, she's a smarter politician, playing to the majority. She'll not rush into another referendum unless she's sure to win.
 
He had influence in the referendum, as I said, he's probably changed his mind about his statement, or mebbe's not. A narrow victory would only need a rerun if it was for Remain is probably what he meant, because he a bit of a hypocrite.

But, the point is, he's allowed to change his mind. So not irrelevant at all.

The SNP haven't changed their mind collectively, they campaigned for independence as a sovereign member of the EU. HTH.
Are you still maintaining that had Remain won the referendum, HMG wouldn't have a mandate to pursue our membership of the EU in a way they see fit?

All because Farage would make a bit of noise?

Without UKIP MPs sitting in Parliament?
 
Would that also be the Scotland that would be able to keep the pound after independence, together with the use of the Bank of England as a lender of last resort? The Scotland that was going to keep on building ships for the RN after independence, would not have a hard border with the UK and could use North Sea oil to pay for free unicorns for all after independence? And would be able to have its share of the UK's assets without assuming its share of the UK's liabilities?

That Scotland?

Wordsmith
You should be familiar with that kind of fibbing, it doesn't count if you cross your fingers when you're door stepping.

£350 million?
Breaking Point?
Turkish accession?
Leaving the SM will be simple?
Nobody's talking about leaving the SM?
A new trade deal will be the easiest in human history?
 
We could declare war on the EU MS if we so choose.

I'd say that a government having the balls to do either seems just as likely
If Theresa May can't get her act together, we'll crash out regardless. 60+ Tory MPs and the DUP are not well disposed towards her conduct of the negotiations. If she cannot convince them to support her, then she is toast. Do you honestly think that Corbyn would whip his MPs to vote for May's incredible deal? Of course he won't... Labour will not prop up Theresa May and would rather take their chances again at the ballot box.
 
You have to give SNP some credit.

They see the benefits of being part of something you support, but compelled to ditch it along with the rest of us.
See above, Sturgeon looks at the long game.
 

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