Brexit Phase Two - Trade

All PMTM's efforts are taken up by the shenanigans of Remainiacs who seem to have a very strange way of 'respecting' the referendum result.
You really need to learn to discuss stuff without frothing at the mouth and, you don't get to define what respecting a result is. HTH
 
Thing is, Remainiacs are intent on ignoring the referendum result. They don't recognise democracy at work and demand the minority view prevails.

And don't see anything wrong with that!
I don't demand anything, the only demands I see are from the braying right of the Tory party.
 
The new Govt in Italy is likely to collapse before the UK leaves the EU if the history of Italian politics follows its usual trajectory, so I wouldn't pin Brexit hopes to it.

As for hard Brexit, if that was going to happen it would have already but somehow Parliament and HMG don't look too keen on shooting the country in the other foot too.
So lets recap, Italy a combination of Out of the Euro and Out of Europe, Germany AfD out of the Euro, Marine Le Penn, out of the Euro with the Left in both Italy and France looking towards Russia. Italy and Greece moaning about Brussels doing nothing about migration ( which is Brussels responsibility). Yep back to Lisbon.
 
Indeed, but your wish stick doesn't change my essential point that, under the terms on which the Referendum was granted, coupled with the Article 50 mechanism, a mandate already exists for pretty much whatever the process finally produces. The one option that has no mandate is BRINO.

Not that that will matter. Despite the noise from the chattering classes, BRINO is recognised by the two main parties as being very seductive but nonetheless a political third rail
Poor logic. By default, you can't have a mandate for something that isn't defined.

What is defined, is the EU, by the Treaties of Rome, Maastrict and Lisbon (steady, Leo).

Leaving that will, legally, discharge the mandate.

Anything else is up for grabs, and grab TM shall - Euratom, Single Market/CU backstop, EASA membership, with more to come as the walls of reality close in. :biggrin:
 
Amazing how you can pick and choose which are actually Brexit Bills and just dismiss those that don't fit your agenda. Seems to be a Remainiac trait. All parliamentary programmes change as you know, but why should the government bring forward Bills which, once debated and passed, are just dismissed by the EU. Putting these Bills up would just give the EU negotiators prior knowledge of UK's position. Also, they would only give Barnier to practice his now traditional "Non".

I suspect if the government put up detailed bills, Remainiacs would be complaining that the government were unnecessarily showing their hand to the EU! Whatever PMTM does will be attacked and a block attempted - even if the proposal is the best for UK's interests. The only way for legislation to get passed the Remainiacs is to capitulate totally to the EU!

Remainiacs! Their new slogan "We're not backing Britain!"
Leavers! Their new slogan "Let's break up the UK!"

Not forgetting "You all voted to be poorer!"

And "Remainers are simultaneously a minority and not in government yet powerful enough to tell the country what to do!"

And the developing "It's all someone else's fault where's my unicorn waah waah waah!"

Wriggle and huff all you like, the Tories have played you for a mug and when Brexit in name only arrives you'll force yourself to be happy with that as you're too weak to accept that what you voted for in 2016 was a fantasy.
 

Auld-Yin

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Looks to me like she's giving the leave elements of her Cabinet and wider party sufficient rope to hang themselves.

I do respect the marginal win for the leave side, but that was 2 years ago and things have moved on.
EU tactics - wait until the fuss has died down and hold more referendums until we get the result we want? Democracy in action indeed!
 

I'd be deeply embarrassed if I shared the same views as the mental giant, 'The Lammster'
How about being deeply embarrassed because Japan and India have asked for more visas as part of a deal and due to lower EU take up we're suffering a skills gap in some areas. FinTech in particular.

Was talking a very bright girl in Berlin, machine learning specialist who was leaving our company. Asked if she was interested in the UK and got a giggle and "no" in response. You'd have to be mad now. Same for some Russian devs who were visiting London in Feb.
 

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Leavers! Their new slogan "Let's break up the UK!"

Not forgetting "You all voted to be poorer!"

And "Remainers are simultaneously a minority and not in government yet powerful enough to tell the country what to do!"

And the developing "It's all someone else's fault where's my unicorn waah waah waah!"

Wriggle and huff all you like, the Tories have played you for a mug and when Brexit in name only arrives you'll force yourself to be happy with that as you're too weak to accept that what you voted for in 2016 was a fantasy.
Somebody is bitter this morning. Remain lost the argument and are losing the debate, despite all the dross being tghrown up. Nick Clegg wanting to silence Leavers looks like a very confident person - not!

The people playing populations for mugs is the EU, and they are now being found out and taken to task! Not a comfortable time at Brussels, which is all good.
 
It's also worth pointing out that there is more of a mandate for a hard Brexit than for any government action which bound us closer to Brussels.
As I've said in recent posts, hard Brexit may be coming by default as the EU forces a week and vacillating May into an agreement that will not be acceptable to a large part of the Tory party. Should a hard Brexit occur and trade between the member states and the UK be significantly interrupted - with the resultant impact on employment and profits on both sides - the recriminations on both sides will be very vocal.

The Tories (almost certainly under a new leader that that point) with point out that the hard Brexit was the combination of a weak leader and impossible demands from the EU. As a result, I suspect they can limit the political damage. I also suspect that a hard Brexit - and a complete break with the EU - will involve more short term pain for the UK, but will be better in the long term.

Within the EU, the recriminations will just exacerbate the tensions between the member states and the European Commission. The Commission will inevitably be blamed for a situation where member states have lost jobs and incumbent governments have reduced chances of being re-elected. As such, I think a hard Brexit will just increase the divisions between the states who want more Europe and those that want less - increasing the political paralysis within the EU.

Wordsmith
 
It looks like the Remainiacs are feeling the pinch if one of their leading lights advocates disenfranchisement of the majority of the electorate that voted in the EU referendum!


Hardly s very liberal attitude!
Fundamentally, there is nothing as illeberal as a liberal. You are at liberty to agree with them but if you disagree you will be no-platformed, accused of various thought crimes or just deemed to be lacking intellect.
 
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