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Brexit Phase Two - Trade

20 quid says Italy tell the EU to shove it’s debts up its clacker.

Another 20 says the EU will say “Italy is a special case and so we are forgetting those debts”
I suspect veiled threats.

Italy is behaving like Holyrood in this matter. Throwing its toys out of the pram if it doesn’t get its own way and failing to acknowledge its fiscal responsibility.

The problem with writing off debt is that somebody else ends up paying fort he liability. It’s a bit like people claiming whip lash on the car insurance. It pushes everybody’s premiums up.

Italy’s best option is to drop out of the € and reintroduce the Lire.
 
I suspect veiled threats.

Italy is behaving like Holyrood in this matter. Throwing its toys out of the pram if it doesn’t get its own way and failing to acknowledge its fiscal responsibility.

The problem with writing off debt is that somebody else ends up paying fort he liability. It’s a bit like people claiming whip lash on the car insurance. It pushes everybody’s premiums up.

Italy’s best option is to drop out of the € and reintroduce the Lire.
I seem to recall that dropping out of the Euro would mean having to leave the EU.

I will try to find it.
 

Wordsmith

LE
Book Reviewer
20 quid says Italy tell the EU to shove it’s debts up its clacker.

Another 20 says the EU will say “Italy is a special case and so we are forgetting those debts”
Or

20 quid says Italy tells the EU that it's economy can't recover without debt forgiveness.

Another 20 says the EU will say “Italy can relax its spending rules and here's another €50 billion of structural funds.

You've not got the hang of this negotiating game have you?

Wordsmith :smile:
 

Wordsmith

LE
Book Reviewer
I seem to recall that dropping out of the Euro would mean having to leave the EU.

I will try to find it.
You won't. There is no legal way to leave the euro.

Which brings up the interesting legal conundrum: how can a euro member invoke Article 50 to leave the EU when only EU members can belong to the euro and there is no way to leave the euro.

Wordsmith
 
I suspect veiled threats.

Italy is behaving like Holyrood in this matter. Throwing its toys out of the pram if it doesn’t get its own way and failing to acknowledge its fiscal responsibility.

The problem with writing off debt is that somebody else ends up paying fort he liability. It’s a bit like people claiming whip lash on the car insurance. It pushes everybody’s premiums up.

Italy’s best option is to drop out of the € and reintroduce the Lire.
Is there a mechanism to allow that? After all, we are now seeing at first hand how well Article 50 was thought through.

Edit: just seen @Wordsmith's post above.
 
Or

20 quid says Italy tells the EU that it's economy can't recover without debt forgiveness.

Another 20 says the EU will say “Italy can relax its spending rules and here's another €50 billion of structural funds.

You've not got the hang of this negotiating game have you?

Wordsmith :smile:
My humble apologies for making such rash and foolish predictions.

You are of course quite correct.

Double or quits someone else tries the same tactic.
 
I seem to recall that dropping out of the Euro would mean having to leave the EU.

I will try to find it.
Firstly, the two parties mentioned haven't even agreed on forming a coalition due to some differences.
Secondly, if you read that article, it says “an old version that has been considerably modified”. In particular, it had been decided “not to call into question the single currency,” they said.

Once they can agree on a few points (some like cutting taxes and not upping the pension age are poles apart) then they could form a coalition. But it's Italy, they have form for this.

The wishful thinking by some may just be that.



 
the veto that had a shelf life you mean? You accuse others of refighting the referendum whilst basing your entire out look on EU on a outdated and rose tinged snapshot. The veto has had it's day. It won't be a thing in 5+/- years. It's simply not conducive to where the EU wants to go and is pretty harmful to the organisation to boot.
How many times do you need to be told that a change to the TEU requires a referendum? This is taking being fact resistant to an extreme.
 
or maybe the government? Same to @ex-bleep. surely you two are not so stupid as to be unable to work out that the government can no longer hide behind the EU once we've cast the EU yoke aside.
Nope, we'll be getting the blame for any failures of your vote. As has already happened.
 
Top tip for the RoI

Even Remainers within HMG are getting a bit fed up with Dublin’s yapping.
Good will is in increasingly short supply, and you won’t find the EU will be as good a friend as the UK has been. You seem to be getting carried away and losing sight of the geographic realities.
Substitute "meerkatz's" for "Dublin's" and I'll give you a double like.
 
I think the following quote might be apt in this case,

CSgt Bourne: "Mr. Witt [or insert remainer of your choice], sir, be quiet now will you; there's a good gentleman. You'll upset the lads."
Not to mention the use of statistics to 'prove' how impossible any defence would be: "If 1,200 men couldn't hold a defensive position this morning, what chance have we with 100?" :grin:
 
Firstly, the two parties mentioned haven't even agreed on forming a coalition due to some differences.
Secondly, if you read that article, it says “an old version that has been considerably modified”. In particular, it had been decided “not to call into question the single currency,” they said.

Once they can agree on a few points (some like cutting taxes and not upping the pension age are poles apart) then they could form a coalition. But it's Italy, they have form for this.

The wishful thinking by some may just be that.
I suspect it isn’t going to end well, and I doubt an EU autocrat waving a rule book is going to stop the inevitable in its tracks.

I give the EU 5-10 in its current form.
 

Wordsmith

LE
Book Reviewer
Once they can agree on a few points (some like cutting taxes and not upping the pension age are poles apart) then they could form a coalition. But it's Italy, they have form for this.
I suspect Five Star and the Northern League will cobble together a program that will allow Italian president to agree to them forming a government. Said government will then go on to do it's own thing. It's not as if politicians actually feel bound to stick to commitments they've made is it?

Wordsmith
 
You won't. There is no legal way to leave the euro.

Which brings up the interesting legal conundrum: how can a euro member invoke Article 50 to leave the EU when only EU members can belong to the euro and there is no way to leave the euro.

Wordsmith
There is no legal provision in the Treaty and the whole idea was that it was an irrevocable decision, hence being likened to electing to enter a building with no exits, no fire escapes and already smouldering.

Following the Greece fiasco, winner of the prize (£250k) for coming up with a viable plan to actually do it came up with issuing a new currency and defaulting on the bulk of Euro denominated debt.

Oh and all the planning for that had to be done in secret with the other members of the Eurozone getting 3 days notice so they could not knacker the process. Such as by destabilising the elected national Government.

Hard Brexit would be easy compared to the shitstorm that would create.
 
There is no legal provision in the Treaty and the whole idea was that it was an irrevocable decision, hence being likened to electing to enter a building with no exits, no fire escapes and already smouldering.

Following the Greece fiasco, winner of the prize (£250k) for coming up with a viable plan to actually do it came up with issuing a new currency and defaulting on the bulk of Euro denominated debt.

Oh and all the planning for that had to be done in secret with the other members of the Eurozone getting 3 days notice so they could not knacker the process. Such as by destabilising the elected national Government.

Hard Brexit would be easy compared to the shitstorm that would create.
The whole bloody thing (both EU and Eurozone) is like the Hotel California!!
 
The original concept, should you choose to read the Treaties, is a closer union of people. I see nothing wrong with that after 3 wars between France and Germany between 1870 and 1939.

Do you not agree with that basic premise?
It's rarely the people of a nation that chooses war or the path to war, rather the few in power who always want to order the lives of others.
 
I suspect Five Star and the Northern League will cobble together a program that will allow Italian president to agree to them forming a government. Said government will then go on to do it's own thing. It's not as if politicians actually feel bound to stick to commitments they've made is it?

Wordsmith
Is that like your predictions from 4 years ago that Podemos would hold the balance of power in Spain?
You can't trust the Mediterranean lot to do what you want them to.
 

Wordsmith

LE
Book Reviewer
Is that like your predictions from 4 years ago that Podemos would hold the balance of power in Spain? You can't trust the Mediterranean lot to do what you want them to.
And my predictions from the same time that Syriza would come to power in Greece and Five Star had a chance of doing so in Italy?

I do get some of them right.

I'll admit being wrong that the last recession would do for the euro - I'll bet good money that I'm not wrong that the next recession does for it.

Wordsmith
 

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