Brexit Endgame

That number strikes me as being about right.
Cost of living is significantly higher in Australia if shopping on a like-for-like basis. Utilities are also far more expensive.
The cost of living is significantly even higher in any Scandinavian country, including those in the EU.
But their wages, tax rates and benefits are proportionally higher too.
Fcuk knows how those Brainiacs in the EU are going to balance out the fact that Andreas in Odense, Denmark who gets paid the equivalent of €6,000 (in Danish Krone) a month before tax, €3,000 after tax, is going to be balanced up and aligned with Stavros in Athens earning €2,000 a month with hardly any tax paid.
Harmonisation of tax collection should sort it all out, apparently.

I can hardly wait to see if the prices of commodities, utilities and food in Scandinavia rises or falls as compared to the PIIGS countries.
Any guesses?
 
The cost of living is significantly even higher in any Scandinavian country, including those in the EU.
But their wages, tax rates and benefits are proportionally higher too.
Fcuk knows how those Brainiacs in the EU are going to balance out the fact that Andreas in Odense, Denmark who gets paid the equivalent of €6,000 (in Danish Krone) a month before tax, €3,000 after tax, is going to be balanced up and aligned with Stavros in Athens earning €2,000 a month with hardly any tax paid.
Harmonisation of tax collection should sort it all out, apparently.

I can hardly wait to see if the prices of commodities, utilities and food in Scandinavia rises or falls as compared to the PIIGS countries.
Any guesses?
I refer the noble gentleman to what happened when Italy ditched the Lira and adopted the Euro.
 

Auld-Yin

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They’re moaning there isn’t enough time, yet they’ve wasted 2 months before they start.
Deliberately IMO. Barnier played the delay and time game last time and played it quite well. This time however he does not have the fifth column of traitor MPs to help him and time is no longer his ally.
 
Didn't bother reading the second paragraph, then?
I'd have thought someone with your extensive IT knowledge would have been able to pick up on the numbeo site but, as you obviously couldn't:

Numbeo
If you look at the actual numbers, they give a range and then some sort of weighted average. The range is as much as a factor of 3 or 4 on an individual item. When prices vary that much, you can't just average posted prices. You have to weight them by sales volume and shopping patterns for each country, and there is no indication that they did so. There is also no indication whether or not the prices include sale prices or discounts, which may not be consistent between countries.

Let's take a simple example. I live in Canada and so will use what I am familiar with (all prices in Canadian dollars). Milk they list as $2.76 per litre in Canada and $1.56 per litre in the UK. On the surface that looks like milk is substantially cheaper in the UK. However, I know that I normally pay a fraction of that price for milk in an ordinary grocery store, or roughly $1.10 per litre, which is a good deal less than what they list for the UK.

I could pick plenty of other examples if I wanted to put the work into it.

The whole concept of that web site is somewhat questionable, as it is apparently all crowd-sourced or screen scraped with no control over how data is being fitted into categories. Let's go back to the milk example.
  • Are we talking about milk by the carton, jug, or bag?
  • Are people listing milk in speciality package sizes in order to fit the web site's pigeon hole?
  • How does the retail milk market in the UK differ from the retail milk market in Canada?
  • What type of milk are people reporting? Homo? 2%? 3.25%? Micro-filtered?
  • How does that relate to the social category of the person reporting it, and how does that in turn relate to the type of milk they consume and the type and size of packaging they buy it in?

And let's look at eggs. They list it as "Eggs (regular) (12)". WTF is a "regular" egg? What size is that, because there's no such size category as "regular" in Canada? How would someone know what egg size to report? How do Canadian standard egg grades and sizes compare to UK standards and what is the likelihood of the average person knowing that in enough detail to be able to compensate? How can you possibly compare prices if you are comparing apples to oranges?

Let's look at apples. What type of apples are we talking about, because the price varies greatly depending on variety? What season of the year are we talking about, in the autumn when the harvest is in, or in the late spring to summer when they are all imported from the southern hemisphere at much higher cost (and when people aren't eating them anyway because the strawberries, raspberries, blueberries, etc. are all in season). Let's just look at "apples" in mid-February though, taking the listed prices. They list the price as $3.90 per kg in Canada, and $3.06 per kg in the UK. Except that if we are just talking about "apples", at the local grocery store they are actaully $2.20 per kg for MacIntosh apples if you buy a bag of them.

Let's look at potatoes. A 20lb bag of russet potatoes is $6.00. That works out to $0.66 per kg. Yet the web site says $2.68 per kg in Canada and $1.98 in the UK. That's a pretty substantial difference. Whom am to to believe, a crowd sourced web site or the actual price charged by an actual grocery store?

I'm not going to go through each item one by one, but this should give a good cross section of different food types.

Unless you allow and compensate for all those factors the numbers are meaningless. As the saying goes, garbage in, garbage out. In the abstract sense food is a commodity, but it isn't an undifferentiated commodity and you have to thoroughly understand each local market and the associated shopping patterns before you can do any meaningful comparison. I haven't seen any sign that they did so, they just appear to have thrown crap at the screen and hoped it would stick.

(...)
Of course, @PhotEx has told us many times that lamb is so expensive here because of the tariffs and taxes the EU puts on stuff from New Zealand. Again, made up bollox as NZ has a tariff free quota to the EU and doesn't get anywhere near making that quota.
I will certainly be among the last to defend something that the man of a thousand user names has said, but you don't seem to understand how agricultural import quotas work.

To give you an example, the web site you used says that "cheese" is much more expensive in Canada than it is in the UK. The EU also has a tariff-free quota to export cheese to Canada. We'll put aside what "price of cheese" means and just look at the fact that the EU also "doesn't get anywhere near making that quota".

In either case, whether we are talking about New Zealand lamb to the EU or EU cheese to Canada, it is very, very, difficult to fully use a quota on a differentiated product. To understand why you have to look at who holds the quotas, what the quota redistribution mechanism is, how often quota redistribution takes place, who the importers are, how concentrated the retail market is, and many other factors.

For example, suppose a major grocery chain the UK wants to run a special on lamb for Easter. They have to estimate the market volume, set a price, plan a promotional campaign, and find a supplier who can fill all their shops with enough product.

If they look to buy from a New Zealand supplier they have to find one who has enough unfilled quota for the time period in question, or it just isn't worth dealing with them. So New Zealand suppliers find that they have spare quota, but they can't use it because the retail market in the UK is so concentrated that the potential buyers are too big to supply out of unused quota.

The same goes with EU cheese to Canada by the way. Speciality cheese shops will only form a limited market, and the size of the quota is too small to interest the big grocery chains who want to fill all their shops with the same product lines. The EU argues that the solution to their not being able to use the cheese quota they currently have is to be given a bigger quota.

So this is another example of how things may look very simple on a superficial level, but they are actually much more complex once you dig below the surface.
 
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That number strikes me as being about right.

Cost of living is significantly higher in Australia if shopping on a like-for-like basis. Utilities are also far more expensive.
It also seems to vary In Oz. You do get around 40k UK average wage Vs our 27k, so I'm not sure how that's factored in. If you earn 30% more, is a 30% increase in potato prices noticeably worse than earning 30% less and having cheaper potatoes ? Is It a sign of a better off or a worse off situation ? If I insist on English cheddar ( which costs an arm and a leg in Oz Vs the local stuff ) in the Oz grocery basket , is that a fair comparison ? I'm not sure how they work comparisons.
If youre living in SA, you'll have the most expensive leccy in the world just about, so peeps are going solar. However, There's places where you'd spend more on air conditioning ie leccy than central heating ie gas or wood in the year vs the cooler parts like up in hills where the reverse is true. The climatic change is quite noticeable. Motoring was certainly cheaper. Regarding water, we had recycled where we were, so flushing loos and washing cars etc was effectively free. You didn't run a tumble dryer most of the year in the driest state so you consume fewer kilowatt hours.
mind you after latest events it's all pretty variable right now.
 

Robme

On ROPS
On ROPs
As it becomes clearer, that the Mafia, are shoiting themselves over the loss of the U.K. cash-cow and as countries such as Holland are saying get fooked at the thought of having to pay more money. It is becoming clear that the EU’s negotiating tactics are akin to the Spanish Inquisition‘s Idea of routing non-Christians? All I seem to hear is how they want this they want that and if they don’t get it they are going to have a tantrum. Fortunately the idea of some 25 year fishing deal that the French demanded, has simply been responded with an order of 25 attack submarines, by Boris and Stevo.
So, IMHO, why don’t we simply pull the plug on the whole Ponzi scheme and go WTO tomorrow?
 
After four years of posting this drivel and being permanently wrong about everything might not a wise old Officer consider that it is fact he who has been conned by the remain camp?
Brother B_L reminds me of one of those Officers that were always right, even when they were wrong. They seemed to disappear into some kind of Officer black hole when they reached the rank of Major, never to be seen or heard of again. A few of them managed to pick up Lt Col, well away from any troops and spend the rest of their life referring to themselves as Lt Col ( Retd ) All a bit sad really.

Anyway, after all the shouting above over rising food costs / shortages / people starving etc etc.

That rural exceptionalism is now under threat. EU civil servants are busy preparing strategy papers for the flagship European Green Deal, which has promised "deeply transformative policies" on agriculture and food when it is presented in full in the spring.

The European Green Deal is going to send food prices spiraling, Brexit or no Brexit.
 

Higgs_bosun

On ROPS
On ROPs
Ministers refuse to release secret Brexit studies – and there’s a good reason why...NO surely not!

Brexit: Ministers brace for no-deal disruption with £60m plans for motorway barrier...Oh that old chestnut.


Here we go, here we go, here we go... 'Britain'' The Land of Mongs. X rated DVD...in all languages. Starring the hunchback, obese blond porn star Boris and his Dominating Master...Cummings. In a cast of 17.4 million idiots, an epic of biblical proportions...set to break all budget records and flop big time. See the trailer.
 
Oh dear

Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte's reputation as Europe's liberal champion risks being torn to shreds in an unexpected quarter: trade.

Against all expectations, Rutte is struggling to win support in parliament for a vote on Tuesday to ratify an EU trade pact with Canada, a supposedly unthreatening ally.

If the Dutch parliament fails to ratify the deal, it would not only be the first EU country to do so, but the Dutch could even be responsible for killing off the Ottawa-Brussels trade accord, known as CETA, just as the EU wants to promote free trade in the teeth of rising protectionism and state capitalism.

Sure. The noises emanating from the EU over a Brexit trade deal really point to the EU promoting free trade.

Free trade under the thumb of EU rules, regulations and the jurisdiction of the ECJ is not free trade.
 

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