Brexit Endgame

The sPAD debate got methinking

In the mid 90s in MOD I do not ever remember a SPAD. I remember the PPSs . But not SPADs. Neither Rifkind nor Portillo ( and I worked on the 7th floor at the time)
Fast forward to the early 2000 s and the landscape had changed. A lot. SPADS. Faaasands of em.
The Blair Government worked out the need for every department to be plugged into the news grid and on message. Only the treasury, was able to maintain its independence, because Brown wanted to be PM..... Also the consultant era was in full flow and young bright things working long hours, saves the minister the effort of doing his job and he can stay focused on the politics or whatever he wants to be on the job with.
 
Britain's future exists in a half can of fizzy drink and some snot on the sleeve of an unelected misfit. Supported by 17.4 million idiots.
image.jpg
 
Fast forward to the early 2000 s and the landscape had changed. A lot. SPADS. Faaasands of em.
Why do you think that it costs the Public £ millions on an annual basis for Special advisers, advisers, ARRSE kissers and hangers on ?

Politicians, in the main, are F***ing useless, most of them would struggle to tie their shoelaces.

Hopefully, by being out of the EU and someone like Johnson in charge, it might / may be about to change.
 

Truxx

LE
Why do you think that it costs the Public £ millions on an annual basis for Special advisers, advisers, ARRSE kissers and hangers on ?

Politicians, in the main, are F***ing useless, most of them would struggle to tie their shoelaces.

Hopefully, by being out of the EU and someone like Johnson in charge, it might / may be about to change.
Thinking about it, and comparing my two experiences, one of my conclusions saw that the SPAD layer (for that is what it was) politicised the support team, ie. the civil service.
 
Thinking about it, and comparing my two experiences, one of my conclusions saw that the SPAD layer (for that is what it was) politicised the support team, ie. the civil service.
That would be a fair conclusion IMO.

If the SPAD layer, over the last 20 years have been pushing a Pro EU agenda, it would explain the remainer antics of large parts of the Higher echelons of the CS.
 

Truxx

LE
That would be a fair conclusion IMO.

If the SPAD layer, over the last 20 years have been pushing a Pro EU agenda, it would explain the remainer antics of large parts of the Higher echelons of the CS.
The MO was not so much to push an agenda, rather to ensure that anything that was not in line with the prevailing world view simply never made it in front of ministers.

It was an artform perfected by Mandleson and Campbell and appears to have carried on. John Reids SPAD was de facto 2 I/C mod.
 
it’s certainly screwed over the media who are in total ‘we didn’t see this coming’ meltdown this morning.
I think the media still believe that the PM is Primus inter pares. Whereas BoJo clearly believes that there shall be only 1 Alpha in the government.
 

skid2

LE
Book Reviewer
Can somebody explain the difference between The Saj's 6 SPADs and Dominic Cummings, and not just the numbers?
Territory, Empire. Loyalty, not necessarily in that order. They move from being treasury Spads to whatever Cummings/No 10 spads are.
 
That would be a fair conclusion IMO.

If the SPAD layer, over the last 20 years have been pushing a Pro EU agenda, it would explain the remainer antics of large parts of the Higher echelons of the CS.
The CS is supposedly unbiased, but what happens when its minister, or SPADs align with the CS bias.. I would suggest to you that the government pro EU wall and project fear, was an example where a very persusasive information campaign was ran and its a neverending surprise to me it failed.

When you consider the reason, the thought crosses my mind that it lacked that negative voice in the group think, who might have said that higgs bosun was not the right person in charge of persuading people of a thing and he should stick to extinction rebelllion or flogging dodgy windows to grannies.
 

Truxx

LE
The CS is supposedly unbiased, but what happens when its minister, or SPADs align with the CS bias.. I would suggest to you that the government pro EU wall and project fear, was an example where a very persusasive information campaign was ran and its a neverending surprise to me it failed.

When you consider the reason, the thought crosses my mind that it lacked that negative voice in the group think, who might have said that higgs bosun was not the right person in charge of persuading people of a thing and he should stick to extinction rebelllion or flogging dodgy windows to grannies.
Thought is top down.

Very much a case of " here is the answer now go away and work out what the question was...."


See legal case for invading Iraq for details.
 
Thought is top down.

Very much a case of " here is the answer now go away and work out what the question was...."


See legal case for invading Iraq for details.
True, but if those tasked with coming up with the justification don't believe in something, you get the iraq farrago where government was very disunited (clare short for one was not a happy bunny, until promised more aid money). Whereas project fear was one of the few times in recent memory, where every government department was pumping out stuff both collectively and individually. The strong feeling was the CS senior bods were united in hostility to brexit.
 

Truxx

LE
True, but if those tasked with coming up with the justification don't believe in something, you get the iraq farrago where government was very disunited (clare short for one was not a happy bunny, until promised more aid money). Whereas project fear was one of the few times in recent memory, where every government department was pumping out stuff both collectively and individually. The strong feeling was the CS senior bods were united in hostility to brexit.
I could write a book on how ithe whole construct conspires to get in the way of common sense.

To quote the then (2003) assistant chief of defence staff ( opetations) to me after an Ops meeting in MOD "Don't worry truxx if only 1% of the intelligence that comes across my desk is correct then Saddaam has WMD...."

1%.
 
I could write a book on how ithe whole construct conspires to get in the way of common sense.

To quote the then (2003) assistant chief of defence staff ( opetations) to me after an Ops meeting in MOD "Don't worry truxx if only 1% of the intelligence that comes across my desk is correct then Saddaam has WMD...."

1%.
So much truth in that quote, about an institution wedded to 'the facts' and the 1% I've heard many times, where the events have not translated those facts into reality.... Its something I have patiently tried to explain to those who worship random links to opinion, that even the facts like an OED, Treasury or IMF report is heavily influenced by group think and wish fulfillment and the statistical games to make those random numbers form a sensible picture.

In a brexit endgame linkage, brexit will be a success or failure, dependent on the events that transpire and not any master plan concocted in higgs bosun or gracs kitchen cabinet of deep minds.
 

Steamboat

War Hero
The european de-fence is rules based, flat footed and depended heavily on the rush. Its strength comes from unity and its one thing being strong whilst the UK sorts our offence out, but at some point, the europeans will face an offence that itself is united (Boris is even now engineering a government which will have less leaks and holes). All in all to face a good offence requires flexibility and the EU unity can't operate outside the rule book.

As you say, china..... Itss actually done us a mighty favour. Because a threat to the global economy tends to force creative thinking and the individual member states will see our arguments of free trade far more sympathetically, as will the don in a re-election year. As such brexit odds of success are rising fast, once we emerge from the inevitable recession that seems likely due to a china slowdown.
The EU has their problems, you are correct.
Do you really think the reshuffling will help out?

Decoupling from China is something I would prefer to see America do. But that takes time . I don’t expect our GDP growth to go above 2.3 percent for 2020. But make no mistake America is a protectionist country and that trend will remain long after the Donald is gone.
 
The Blair Government worked out the need for every department to be plugged into the news grid and on message. Only the treasury, was able to maintain its independence, because Brown wanted to be PM..... Also the consultant era was in full flow and young bright things working long hours, saves the minister the effort of doing his job and he can stay focused on the politics or whatever he wants to be on the job with.
Special advisers introduced in 1964.
 
The strong feeling was the CS senior bods were united in hostility to brexit.
Oh and how. ISTR that @Graculus about three years ago stated that if the Government had obeyed the rules half the issues couldn't have happened.
I stumbled over this some time ago and thought it apposite and if read properly it will be seen that the rules that were imposed couldn't be acted upon and why. In short simply impractical.
 

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Decoupling from China is something I would prefer to see America do.
China is the most powerful nation on earth, militarily and economically. Do you think decoupling (as you put it) is a good idea? It can only lead to tensions. China can take the hit, America can’t.
 

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