Brexit Endgame

Once over I worked with a French Algerian, born long after 1940 but who was very bitter about Operation Catapult. 60 odd years (when I knew him) after the event it was still a pretty contentious issue that was taken very personally.
Yeah, what ever you do not mention the ultimatum as being reasonable. Taking the stance that they were warned, given options and didn't take any of the options, and so suffered the consequences is rather badly received. The Reaction I got surprised me when I made a comment about it where a Frenchman could see it! It was a bit like being suddenly savaged by a puppy poodle out of nowhere.

The view I got off a Frenchman was they were only following orders (getting some practice in are we?), and that an armistice was signed, so it was all above board etc etc. Pointing out that by staying meant they were now a German Fleet and thus Target is apparently naughty as well.

There's a bit of a mental car crash however, if you then point out the Free French Forces who bailed to the UK.
 

Trans-sane

LE
Book Reviewer
Yeah, what ever you do not mention the ultimatum as being reasonable. Taking the stance that they were warned, given options and didn't take any of the options, and so suffered the consequences is rather badly received. The Reaction I got surprised me when I made a comment about it where a Frenchman could see it! It was a bit like being suddenly savaged by a puppy poodle out of nowhere.

The view I got off a Frenchman was they were only following orders (getting some practice in are we?), and that an armistice was signed, so it was all above board etc etc. Pointing out that by staying meant they were now a German Fleet and thus Target is apparently naughty as well.

There's a bit of a mental car crash however, if you then point out the Free French Forces who bailed to the UK.
YouTube Naval Historiographer's point of view
Spoiler: Its the French Admiral's fault
 

Wordsmith

LE
Book Reviewer
At last, positivity

And that reflects the EU's unspoken fear of Brexit.
  1. The UK chops tax, regulation and import duties while signing trade deals with the rest of the word.
  2. The UK's growth rate significantly outstrips that of the EU.
  3. Many of the EU's member states demand lower tax, regulation and import duties so they can grow faster as well.
  4. Lower tax, regulation and import duties = less EU = end of dreams of a United States of Europe.
Wordsmith
 
There's a bit of a mental car crash however, if you then point out the Free French Forces who bailed to the UK.
Some of the hardest fighting units and amongst the last to surrender during the Battle of Berlin.


Then there's the French who fell over themselves to start shipping Jews to their fates from belle France.

A dispicable act commited all over France (including Vichy) when the French were given their orders. An act not owned up to by the French until only in the last five or ten years.

I'll give Macron his due. He has renounced it as s crime in France and by the French, very publicly. At about the same time marine le pen was continuing the long held belief that as La Republic didn't exist in the '40s then La Republic didn't have blood on its hands. This view was/is held by all sides of the political spectrum of France and only a minority have spoken out in the past.

Flick side. La Republic was in the f*cking vanguard of driving out the bosche in 1944 and everyone was in the resistance.
 

Wordsmith

LE
Book Reviewer
I suspect calling it the Mers El Kébir Squadron may upset them more.
[Thread drift]

It's worth remembering that:
  1. Had the Germans seized the French fleet, the UK might have been forced to surrender
  2. Churchill had no faith in Petain's government keeping their word.
  3. The French admiral was given a number of choice including sink his ships himself, demilitarise them or sail to a US port where the ships would be put under US supervision
  4. Sommerville only opened fire after the French admiral refused those options.
  5. Mers El Kébir had a marked effect on US public opinion - which started to believe the UK would fight on and should be supported.
[/Thread Drift]

Wordsmith
 
[Thread drift]

It's worth remembering that:
  1. Had the Germans seized the French fleet, the UK might have been forced to surrender
  2. Churchill had no faith in Petain's government keeping their word.
  3. The French admiral was given a number of choice including sink his ships himself, demilitarise them or sail to a US port where the ships would be put under US supervision
  4. Sommerville only opened fire after the French admiral refused those options.
  5. Mers El Kébir had a marked effect on US public opinion - which started to believe the UK would fight on and should be supported.
[/Thread Drift]

Wordsmith
And iirc the French wasted days whining about our French speaking officers we used to make the offer not being senior enough.
 
And iirc the French wasted days whining about our French speaking officers we used to make the offer not being senior enough.
Admiral Gensoul was insulted that a mere Captain was sent to talk to him

Somerville had sent a Captain (Holland? Ark Royal) because he not only spoke good french and been a Naval attache to Paris but was known to Gensoul, they had met before.
 
And that reflects the EU's unspoken fear of Brexit.
  1. The UK chops tax, regulation and import duties while signing trade deals with the rest of the word.
  2. The UK's growth rate significantly outstrips that of the EU.
  3. Many of the EU's member states demand lower tax, regulation and import duties so they can grow faster as well.
  4. Lower tax, regulation and import duties = less EU = end of dreams of a United States of Europe.
Wordsmith
saw a comment today... the EU accounts for 50% of the worlds welfare spending.

Eat your heart out Soviet Russia!
 

Trans-sane

LE
Book Reviewer
saw a comment today... the EU accounts for 50% of the worlds welfare spending.

Eat your heart out Soviet Russia!
It was in the The Mail article linked on this very thread. The one written by the travelling editor of Bold.
 

Wordsmith

LE
Book Reviewer
Another impossibility looms ahead
Watch BoJo jump on this.

With the subtext to the EU: "If you don't give us a FTA, watch your £66 billion trade surplus with the UK disappear as your goods are progressively replaced by US ones".

If BoJo makes rapid progress with a US FTA, it'll put pressure on the EU to stop playing silly b*ggers about a trade deal.

Here's the share of world trade for the top countries

https://www.investopedia.com/insights/worlds-top-economies/

1579996526175.png


The US as a market is a bigger market than the entire EU, and there are plenty of other large non-EU economies out there like China, Japan and India.

The EU's main advantage is that it's on our doorstep, but given it's steadily shrinking share of world trade, our future lies in being outward facing and starting to trade with the rest of the world - a much more vibrant economy.

Wordsmith
 
Watch BoJo jump on this.

With the subtext to the EU: "If you don't give us a FTA, watch your £66 billion trade surplus with the UK disappear as your goods are progressively replaced by US ones".

If BoJo makes rapid progress with a US FTA, it'll put pressure on the EU to stop playing silly b*ggers about a trade deal.

Here's the share of world trade for the top countries

https://www.investopedia.com/insights/worlds-top-economies/

View attachment 445849

The US as a market is a bigger market than the entire EU, and there are plenty of other large non-EU economies out there like China, Japan and India.

The EU's main advantage is that it's on our doorstep, but given it's steadily shrinking share of world trade, our future lies in being outward facing and starting to trade with the rest of the world - a much more vibrant economy.

Wordsmith
I do like a good cheese.
 
I heard rumours of the white cliffs of Dover to be vandalised with a 'we love the EU' banner. Appears the crowd funding came short & a large blanket has appeared.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
 
I'm having a think about EU imports that I personally would/do buy.

Lidl's Alpenfest week for bratties, some of the Spanish stuff isn't too bad, likewise Greek week for gyros bits n bobs.

I don't need a Hitler mobile, nor a Peugeot with five reverse gears , plus we do far better cheese.

Lacking Apfelkorn tho...
 
Not so much choice where I live - except for Ffrench wine, mostly overpriced.
 

Latest Threads

Top