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Breaking news US in talks with Taliban

#2
I have never studied rockets or science, but this thread caught my eye and made me put my book down titled Five On Kirrin Island Again, who the hell in blazing Jesus thinks peace talks with Terry will work, I have more fulfilling and engaging talks with my 3 year old niece!
 
#4
We have been there 11 years in recent times, and we are now at the peace talks level, hence my rocket and science pun, shouldnt we have done that in the first place?
 
#5
Agreed, why has it taken so long? Yank public fed up with Afghanistan now that Bin Laden has been slotted?

I remember the yanks getting upset some time ago when the British were making moves to chat with the Taliban. Obviously its better to have more bloodshed then to have peace. (wish there was a sarcasm smiley).
 
#6
Agreed, why has it taken so long? Yank public fed up with Afghanistan now that Bin Laden has been slotted?

I remember the yanks getting upset some time ago when the British were making moves to chat with the Taliban. Obviously its better to have more bloodshed then to have peace. (wish there was a sarcasm smiley).
Thing is though, how do you reach a compromise with religious fundamentalists?
 
#7
Whats the opinion on the ground towards this war ?

I have followed this with great interest since day one in 2001, i have watched all the documentaries and info i can get hold of, obviously i have never been there but i would like the opinions on the soldiers that have ?

Do you feel like your efforts are a waste of time ?

How do you feel when you have finished your tour ?

Do you genuinly feel like you have "made a difference" to the civilians there ?

Just by watching documentaries and various clips on youtube it seems to me like you dont know who the fuck your fighting and one minute a farmer can have an AK in his hands and the next a shovel basically taking the piss. IMO.
 
#8
Thing is though, how do you reach a compromise with religious fundamentalists?
Not sure, but unless someone tries, this is going to go on and on and on.

Then again, what is there to discuss about, we haven't even been given a good reason for going into Afghanistan. Al Qaeda are welcome in a number of countries and Bin Laden was obviously going to leg it on allied troops entering Afghanistan.
 
#9
Thats a good point Cabana.

From reading many documents and listening to people on the ground there mainly the civilian population, it seems the Taliban are no longer fighting this war and it's the Mujahadeen, which has in all of history NEVER been defeated. They are defending there country from invasion. It stems from hundreds of years of history, they have never been defeated, so why not engage in negotiations with them. It seems to me, the Mujahadeen are supporting the Taliban, i also feel like our forces are fighting the Mujahadeen and not the Taliban as the Taliban are merely the Political wing of the Muja.

Correct me if you think i'm wrong, but these are the opinions i have formed for myself afer watching and reading about this in a very thorough way.
 

Command_doh

LE
Book Reviewer
#10
If these fools just did a deal with the Talibs at the start, or better yet, just didn't bother with this foolish waste of time, lives and money, there would not be the collosal waste of blood and treaure that there is today.

The 'kill bin lid' hunt cost trillions. The stopping of 'occupation' of Mulim lands was one of Bin Lid's declaration of war demands in the 1990's, and yet the 'war on terror' (impossible to go to war on an unquantifiable word) just increase the hate and anger from the Ummah, and no doubt led to more people fighting the 'infidel crusaders' in the name of Allah.

the CIA handed out suitcases stuffed fulll of $500,000+ cash to various tribal leaders at the start of the U.S. folly, and they just kept giving and giving. Many changed sides later - the most prominent being Gulbudin Hekmatyar - and all it did was enable Warlords to consolidate their power in inter-tribal feuds and did very little in the 'war' effort.

Delta Force and U.S. Spec Op missions (battle of tora bora) were a complete failure. The U.S. has been bribing (carrot and stick) Pakistan for years for their 'help' in Afghanistan for years, yet EVERYBODY knew he was being held somewhere in Pakistan, the only question being where exactly.

This whole joke of a conflict has being a waste of time and money from the start, and the U.S. backed the wrong horse by cutting Ahmed Shah Masoud loose because he started flirting with neighbouring N/NE Shiia countries and exhibted a will of his own and would not bend to their will. Instead, they backed the most corrupt man in the region, Karzai, and he only got the job because his old man was wasted by the Talibs. He has no powerbase, his brother alternates between being a CIA agent, a heroin trafficker and the CEO of the only non-U.S. bodyguard/logistics company(ies) in the country. They are both as corrupt as they come.

And when the U.S. roll out of what is one of the most undeveloped places on the face of the plannet, both brothers will be hanging from lamp-posts like Najibullah.

The Soviets couldn't tame Afghanistan with ten times the manpower, equipment, heavy weapons and armour, and they OWNED the damned place at the time.

The sooner everyone pulls out of this shit hole, the better. The only real solution would be a tactical ICBM, but that will never happen.

You can't negotiate with people who want to destroy everything you stand for and expect to get any tangible result. Especially when you HELPED them defeat the last nation who tried to smite them, even when they hated you for it.
 
#11
Not sure, but unless someone tries, this is going to go on and on and on.

Then again, what is there to discuss about, we haven't even been given a good reason for going into Afghanistan. Al Qaeda are welcome in a number of countries and Bin Laden was obviously going to leg it on allied troops entering Afghanistan.
I think that we had a very good reason to enter Afghanistan. We have just fucked it up IMO. We took on too much with too little is how I see it. Had we took control of only as much as we could sustain and the Afghans in our TAOR had seen an immediate and continuing improvement of their quality of life, things might be looking much better. TBH, that is what I thought we where going to do, oh how foolish I feel about that now.
 
#12
With due respect Command Doh your knowledge of Afghanistan is stubborn

Ahmad Shah Masood, Hekmatyar, Rabbani, and the other Jihadi Cockroaches were part of the Peshawer Seven way before any Soviet soldier entered Afghan land, Pakistan under the rule of Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto, started arming these Jihadis to overthrow the Afghan Government and prevent a Soviet sponsored Afghan reclaim of Stolen land by the Pakistani Government, this land is referred to as NWFP which was taken by the British and handed over to their Chai Wala's in the plains of Punjab present day Pakistan.

Afghanistan was starting to become a progressive socialist society, as the monarcy was overthrown and the people chose to revolt against superstitous practices, which led to Mullahs being pushed back to the villages, and the King exiled.

Pakistan played a hand in supporting Pro Jihadi revolts against the Afghan government at the time, one being the Panjshir revolt/uprising, which was led by a individual called Hamid gul, who was head of ISI, and the same Hamid gul to this present day supports the Taliban very openly in Pakistan, his hypcrosy is well known.

America found a opportunity to give the Soviets their vietname, so hence they collaborated with the Pakistanis, and started arming a revolt by luring the Soviets into Afghanistan.

Americans started publishing Jihadi text books please read article titled ABC'S of Jihad by Washington post, most of the content was produced at the University of Nebraska, and given to poor orphan Afghan children. On those text books some say, were photos of Russian and Afghan soldiers, and Quranic texts portraying them as Kaffirs.

I know about the conflict very well, as my uncle was a Tank commander at the time, the region became a Great Game trying to get one over the Soviets, in my view, the Russians were a ally and a friend, and done much more better things for the Afghan people than those Mullah twats such as open schools, build infrastructure and helped the Afghan economy, while the Americans sponsored the worst rejects of Society, similar to your Kray brothers in the UK, and gave them millions of dollars and International backing from some of the worst fucktards in the Middle East.

I understand your fustration about the results of this long conflict, but I can only assure you that real progress will only come once Pakistan is spanked very hard instead of forgiven and allowed to spew Jihadi Hatred in Afghanistan.

Nearly every Terrorist, or would be suicide bomber, happens to be in most cases a Pakistani who has no links to Afghan land, you have Mullahs in the Pakistani Government such as JUI led by the likes of Maulana Fazul Rahman and Qazi Hussain, Imran Khan etc openly supporting suicide attacks on both Nato and Afghan soldiers.

This issue has been put forward by the Afghan authorities on many occasions to the Americans, but strangely the Americans never seem to progress on our concerns and complaints, they seem to put it aside and ignore it, only when Bin Laden was officially Killed in Pakistan, mile away from their Military base, our concerns were proven, as our Intelligence services 2 or 3 years ago, stated to the Nato forces, that Bin Laden is in Pakistan.

Pakistan is the obstacle towards stability and peace in the region. Stop feeding the damme parasite.

Have a great day mate.
 

Command_doh

LE
Book Reviewer
#14
They will be behead him, but he will be on a plane out of there with suitcases full of cash (or his numbered Swiss account) long before that happens.
 
#15
With due respect Command Doh your knowledge of Afghanistan is stubborn... snipped ...

Have a great day mate.
You know what? I think you made some quite insightful points in that post. It is a shame that they are partially obscured in vitriol. Try to post a tad more neutrally. That way you wont invoke knee-jerk reactions against you.
 
#16
I think that we had a very good reason to enter Afghanistan. We have just fucked it up IMO. We took on too much with too little is how I see it. Had we took control of only as much as we could sustain and the Afghans in our TAOR had seen an immediate and continuing improvement of their quality of life, things might be looking much better. TBH, that is what I thought we where going to do, oh how foolish I feel about that now.
I would very much like to know that reason. Please don't say the events of the 11th of September 2001, because that is not the case. That heinous event was not perpetrated by Afghans, although the planning was allegedly done in Afghanistan by a Saudi. What should have happened is the US should have sent their special forces in and nabbed Bin laden (ok, they don't have the ability to nab, just kill), thereby cutting the head of Al Qaeda and rendering it a non effective force. (I have said this from the beginning). Instead, the US fell into Bin Ladens trap and wanted a spectacular revenge response and invaded Afghanistan (dragging us and many other countries in) which strengthened support for Al Qaeda.

I agree that too much was taken on with too little. I remember listening to a Russian General stating that the same mistakes had been made by the Coalition as by the Russians....and more. The lessons learnt by the Russians should have been taken note of by the Coalition.
 
#17
I would very much like to know that reason. Please don't say the events of the 11th of September 2001, because that is not the case. That heinous event was not perpetrated by Afghans, although the planning was allegedly done in Afghanistan by a Saudi. What should have happened is the US should have sent their special forces in and nabbed Bin laden (ok, they don't have the ability to nab, just kill), thereby cutting the head of Al Qaeda and rendering it a non effective force. (I have said this from the beginning). Instead, the US fell into Bin Ladens trap and wanted a spectacular revenge response and invaded Afghanistan (dragging us and many other countries in) which strengthened support for Al Qaeda.

I agree that too much was taken on with too little. I remember listening to a Russian General stating that the same mistakes had been made by the Coalition as by the Russians....and more. The lessons learnt by the Russians should have been taken note of by the Coalition.
Actually Sep 11 was the reason. I do see your POV but can't think of any way that the USA could suffer the Taliban giving succour to the organiser of those events. Can you?
 
#18
Its about time we really made a decision on this, i for one as a civilian would like to see a resolution to this one way or another.

The public like a WIN, so why on earth dont the government send in the entire army navy And RAF to totally eradicate this problem, it would then only take a few months rather than years, we could send in the whole shabang, and the US army and marines too. totally clean it out once and for all rather than messing around with a feather duster. and a sprinkling of troops here and there.....????

The public would be far more supportive of one massive "get the job done scenario" than a prolonged war.
 
#19
I cant be bothered rebutting some of the bollocks just spouted above, but the situation on the ground is very much changing in the favour of ISAF/ANA on the ground, despite reports to the contrary by media shitehawks, from mates recently returned the difference from just a few tours ago is markedly better than before. To suggest as Vodka & Coke does that servicemen are running around like headless chickens Hollywood Vietnam style is at best a cliched view of the so called liberal intelligencia who see all servicemen/women as society's failure to employ more social workers and E & D reps. We have been on a learning curve and mistakes were made but things are improving. I can assure you the Taliban (who were only indirectly our enemy, as in giving AQ sanctuary), do not negotiate when they are winning. To say this is an unwinnable war (fuck i hate that term) is shite. Bin Laden is dead, Terry is on the back foot, a democratic (albeit an Afghan style Democracy) is in government with its influence spreading daily thanks to ISAFS/ANA/ANP efforts, when we leave behind us a relatively stable country able to defend itself from internal instability (as much as can be expected) we will have 'won'. And good on every man/woman jack of them that have bled and sweated to acheve it!!!
 
#20
Actually Sep 11 was the reason. I do see your POV but can't think of any way that the USA could suffer the Taliban giving succour to the organiser of those events. Can you?
The US should have tried diplomacy before anything. Instead they gave ultimatums...as they usually do, which gets nowhere. As far as I understand, the taliban leader (forgive me I can't remember his name at this time), did not know that it was Bin Laden who instigated the tragic events of that day, which is why they asked for evidence from the US that Bin Laden was involved. Not an unreasonable request really.
As I said, they should have done what they did in Pakistan recently. Used their special forces to go into Afghanistan and take/slot Bin Laden. I clearly remember Bush telling us they knew his whereabouts and had satellite pictures of all the relevant locations, yet they fucked it up. They then could have made a big media even saying this is what we do to those who hurt us. Instead, their desire to make a big bang has cost the lives of more US people (soldiers and civilians) then died that day, cost the lives of many allied personell and innocents, cost billions upon billions and the US looks weak as it cannot defeat a people with rifles and rpgs with all its fire power and technology.........again.
 

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