Brazil to build a nuclear submarine

#1
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6290234.stm

Brazil's president has pledged to revive a long-stalled project to build the country's third nuclear reactor and also a nuclear submarine.
Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva said hundreds of millions of extra dollars would be made available for the project over the next eight years.
Interesting, have other countries (Iran for example) a right to build nuclear submarines?
 
#2
Brazil on the Atlantic coast so a deep water sub makes sense though not exactly sure why they need one not exactly a global power.
Iran Persian gulf not good sub territory not really a global player and getting the sub out of the straits to attack the evil yankees isn't going to happen so I doubt its on there plan
 
#3
Is Brazil a major threat to the world at large?

... Nope. And a Nuclear powered sub is entirely different to a Nuclear armed sub, Sergey.
 
#4
The_Goon said:
Is Brazil a major threat to the world at large?

... Nope. And a Nuclear powered sub is entirely different to a Nuclear armed sub, Sergey.
Of course. However even without nuclear weapons nuclear powered submarine is a very dangerous toy.

Brighton hippy, gulf of Oman is deep enough (with depths more than 2000m).
 
#5
Yes, Nuclear subs are dangerous for their range if nothing else, but with a conventional payload I really can't see it being an issue. Probably why no-one is kicking up a fuss.
 
#6
The_Goon said:
Yes, Nuclear subs are dangerous for their range if nothing else, but with a conventional payload I really can't see it being an issue. Probably why no-one is kicking up a fuss.
I'm not sure.

http://www.softwar.net/3m82.html

In August 1999, the first of two 8,480-ton Russian Navy Project 956A destroyers built for China conducted trials in the eastern Baltic. Each 956A warship is armed with eight supersonic 3M82 Moskit sea-skimming missiles (NATO code-name SS-N-22 "Sunburn").

The 3M82 MOSKIT anti-ship missile is produced by the Raduga Machine Building Design Bureau located in Dubna. Raduga developed the widely exported SS-N-2 Styx missile which sank an Israeli destroyer during the six day war.

The Raduga Moskit anti-ship missile is perhaps the most lethal anti-ship missile in the world. The MOSKIT is designed to fly as low as 9 feet at over 1,500 miles per hour, faster than a rifle bullet. The missile uses a violent pop-up maneuver for its terminal approach to throw off Phalanx and other anti-missile defense.

WARHEAD - 750 LB. CONVENTIONAL OR 200 KILOTON NUCLEAR
RANGE - 90 MILES
http://www.rense.com/general59/theSunburniransawesome.htm

The Sunburn's combined supersonic speed and payload size produce tremendous kinetic energy on impact, with devastating consequences for ship and crew. A single one of these missiles can sink a large warship, yet costs considerably less than a fighter jet. Although the Navy has been phasing out the older Phalanx defense system, its replacement, known as the Rolling Action Missile (RAM) has never been tested against the weapon it seems destined to one day face in combat. Implications For US Forces in the Gulf
...
The US Navy has never faced anything in combat as formidable as the Sunburn missile. But this will surely change if the US and Israel decide to wage a so-called preventive war against Iran to destroy its nuclear infrastructure.
...
This very night, as he sips his cognac, what is Vladimir Putin thinking? Is he perhaps thinking about the perverse symmetries of history? If so, he may also be wondering (and discussing with his closest aides) how a truly great nation like the United States could be so blind and so stupid as to allow another state, i.e., Israel, to control its foreign policy, especially in a region as vital (and volatile) as the Mid-East.

One can almost hear the Russians' animated conversation:

"The Americans! What is the matter with them?" "They simply cannot help themselves."

"What idiots!"

"A nation as foolish as this deserves to be taught a lesson"

"Yes! For their own good."

"It must be a painful lesson, one they will never forget. "Are we agreed, then, comrades?"

"Let us teach our American friends a lesson about the limits of military power..."

Does anyone really believe that Vladimir Putin will hesitate to seize a most rare opportunity to change the course of history and, in the bargain, take his sweet revenge? Surely Putin understands the terrible dimensions of the trap into which the US has blundered, thanks to the Israelis and their neo-con supporters in Washington who lobbied so vociferously for the 2003 invasion of Iraq, against all friendly and expert advice, and who even now beat the drums of war against Iran. Would Putin be wrong to conclude that the US will never leave the region unless it is first defeated militarily? Should we blame him for deciding that Iran is "one bridge too far"?
...
Try and imagine it if you can: barrage after barrage of Exocet-class missiles, which the Iranians are known to possess in the hundreds, as well as the unstoppable Sunburn and Yakhonts missiles. The questions that our purblind government leaders should be asking themselves, today, if they value what historians will one day write about them, are two: how many of the Russian anti-ship missiles has Putin already supplied to Iran? And: How many more are currently in the pipeline?
...
The US Navy will come under fire even if the US does not participate in the first so-called surgical raids on Iran's nuclear sites, that is, even if Israel goes it alone. Israel's brand-new fleet of 25 F-15s (paid for by American taxpayers) has sufficient range to target Iran, but the Israelis cannot mount an attack without crossing US-occupied Iraqi air space. It will hardly matter if Washington gives the green light, or is dragged into the conflict by a recalcitrant Israel. Either way, the result will be the same. The Iranians will interpret US acquiescence as complicity, and, in any event, they will understand that the real fight is with the Americans. The Iranians will be entirely within their rights to counter-attack in self-defense. Most of the world will see it this way, and will support them, not America. The US and Israel will be viewed as the aggressors, even as the unfortunate US sailors in harm's way become cannon fodder.
...
With enough anti-ship missiles, the Iranians can halt tanker traffic through Hormuz for weeks, even months. With the flow of oil from the Gulf curtailed, the price of a barrel of crude will skyrocket on the world market. Within days the global economy will begin to grind to a halt.
 
#7
Sergey, you've gone off at a tangent...

Most of what you just wrote is about Israel, the Middle East, and possible action against Iran.

What the hell has it got to do with Brazil?!
 
#9
Cow, read Sergeys last post, it pretty much centres on Iran and weapons that China and Iran have. I can see no relation to Brazil.
 
#10
Surely any nation has the right to biuld a nuclear powered submarine.

How many of them have the ability, facilaties and know-how?
 
#11
Of course they do; Who are we, or any other country, to dictate what other sovereign states can do?

Issues arise when what one nation does, or is planning to do, will impact adversely on others.

Personally, I don't see why Brazil getting a Nuclear powered submarine would cause an issue. Conventionally armed (Remember, no news on armament as yet), it would basically just have an increased range.
 
#12
The_Goon said:
Sergey, you've gone off at a tangent...

Most of what you just wrote is about Israel, the Middle East, and possible action against Iran.

What the hell has it got to do with Brazil?!
We should look at this news in the more wide context. Bazil is a fast developed industrial country, has own Uranium and now decides to develop all nuclear technologies needed. And no doubts that Brazil is able to resolve this task. I suppose that Brazilian nuclear powered submarines would be welcomed on world weapon market. Many countries (including Iran) would be glad to buy them. In this situation Russia could propose its nuclear powered submarines to any country. Why not?

So recent Brazilian decision could lead to very serious consequences. Eventually it would undermine global abilities of USA.
 
#13
I understand that bit, however, in a round about way he's describing weapons that the Sub can provide a platform for. How Barzil would need these though, I haven't a clue.

Guess your right then... :cry:
 
#14
Sergey, you're looking at this ina very odd manner.

Brazil is developing its own technology and building its own submarine(s). There is no guarantee that this Sub will ever be produced (if you read the article, they started building the Nuclear power station in the eighties... and are just about to carry on!) and if it is, why do you assume they will export it?

Who would they export to? Considering they say it will take eight years just to build this one, I don't think that exportation is a worry right now.

And I don't believe that Brazil is as worrying as Russia when it comes to arms exportation.
 
#15
KGB_resident said:
We should look at this news in the more wide context. Bazil is a fast developed industrial country, has own Uranium and now decides to develop all nuclear technologies needed. And no doubts that Brazil is able to resolve this task. I suppose that Brazilian nuclear powered submarines would be welcomed on world weapon market. Many countries (including Iran) would be glad to buy them. In this situation Russia could propose its nuclear powered submarines to any country. Why not?

So recent Brazilian decision could lead to very serious consequences. Eventually it would undermine global abilities of USA.
Reading into this, Russia have alot to gain, if they can provide weapons and weapons platforms to countries which are not pro-US then they're extending their navy in a covert manor. Projection of power by a state by another state is a much easier way to win a war than to build yourself a force capable of doing so. They're in a win win situation.

Developing countries are throwing money into projects which they can support without having to shell out on costs, they then get developement on the free. Also the country they've provided a capability too is typicaly anti US, providing the US with another threat to worry about: thus spreading/streching their resorces further.
 
#16
In fairness, Cow, Russia at this stage appears to have nothing to do with Brazil and this Submarine.

Possibly later Russia will offer weapons for it, but right now Russia is unrelated.
 
#17
Maybe I need a tin hat, why develope your own sub when you can buy/borrow the design of one? Yes they're not mentioned but where/who else can provide a sub design, surely to design your own is very expensive and time consuming.
 
#18
Cow said:
I understand that bit, however, in a round about way he's describing weapons that the Sub can provide a platform for. How Barzil would need these though, I haven't a clue.

Guess your right then... :cry:
I didnt think that Sunburn was deployable via Sub, just by SU27K and surface craft with relevant launchers.
And seeing as this particular missile has been around since the 1980s, I'd be very suprised if there was no western answer (via countermeasures or defensive arms) to this particular weapon.
 
#19
I know what you're saying, Cow, and don't think i'm trying to "bash" you or your ideas, i'm not.

But the report says that El Presidente visited a Naval research centre. I would not be surprised if some ideas, concepts, and technologies from existing Submarines were used, but I think they are really planning to build there own Subs.
 

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