Braking Problem

[Stanchion]

Took the car in for annual main dealer servicing a few months back.
Paid for a brake fluid change.
Afterwards, there was a lot more play in the brake pedal, I was having to push the pedal down quite a bit further before the brakes operated.
Took it back to the dealers who did another fluid change but said they had seen nothing wrong with it.
After the second change, brake pedal was back to its previous norm, so working fine.
However, I visit a relative who has a slope running down from their drive (kerb level) to road surface level.
When I reverse down this slope, the brake pedal goes right down to the floor and fails to operate the brakes and I have to use the hand-brake to stop.
I'm not trying to push accelerator and brake at the same time.
It's a bit perturbing when it happens.

Of course, I could avoid the problem by backing onto the drive and then driving forward to exit but I'd rather get the problem sorted out.

Any suggestions as to what the fault might be, before I go back to the dealers again?

The vehicle is a Zafira Tourer.
Thanks

 

[RTU'd]

Master Brake Cylinder?

Do they do a Haynes Manual on it, if so worth a look?

 

[Lindermyer]

As above see Master for weeping seals

If its Drums at the rear check there isnt a weeping wheel cylinder seal - they can chuck up wierd symptoms before said seal/ cylinder gives up entirely and pressing the break pedal simply becomes a means of emptying the reservoir.

It makes for an amusing tale - but its rather less amusing at the time when your foot goes to the floor with no resistance and with no appreciable increase in deceleration*


* Beyond the usual did i run into a wall effect that lifting off the Accelerator has on an S3 Landie (To the amusement of some and the annoyance of the BMW sat 2ft off your rear bumper because you arent doing 60 MPH on a twisty road

 

[Ecosse]

As above, however until the leak or fault is isolated be aware brake fluid is highly paint ( eg where is master situated) toxic & corrosive, lunches paint and is not desirable anywhere other than within the system.
I'm thinking cats' paws on driveway etc.....

 

[bentobox]

Dealership bled the brakes then forgot to completely tighten the bleed nipple on the brake caliper? Is there evidence of brake fluid weeping out of the bleed nipple?

If so that is a big no no from the dealership.

Edit to add, the description of the brake pedal going to the floor suggests there is air in the braking system, which could be caused by not filling the master cylinder with sufficient brake fluid, or the brakes being bled and not fully closing the bleed nipple.

 

[721CXT]

Probably a bit obvious, but even if there is no evidence of a leak, was the fluid up to the correct level in the chamber?
I once made the mistake of bleeding the brakes on my car with the front end up on ramps. all went well for a while and then there was air in the system. I repeated and the same happened. A mate was a service manager at a Ford main dealer and came round to help. It took a couple of more goes to realize that the fluid left the chamber towards the front of the unit and by the time you'd bled a couple of cylinders it would let air down the pipe.

 

[TheSockPuppet]

Air in the system?

 

[flieslikeabeagle]

Air in the system gives a spongy pedal

If it has rear cylinders pull off the drums and check the auto adjusters aren't seized

 

[Don Felton]

Gentlemen, as an old time mechanic, fitter this brake problem should not be taken lightly. I do not disagree with what has been suggested, however we are talking serious injury if the brakes fail at the wrong time. Take the car to a professional, explain the problem, he will no doubt complete a total system check, in order to determine the reason for persistent pressure failure. This is one area in any vehicle that must work correctly and efficiently at all times. Might cost a Bob or two, but it will put your mind to rest! Obedon.

 

[anglo]

Took the car in for annual main dealer servicing a few months back.
Paid for a brake fluid change.
Afterwards, there was a lot more play in the brake pedal, I was having to push the pedal down quite a bit further before the brakes operated.
Took it back to the dealers who did another fluid change but said they had seen nothing wrong with it.
After the second change, brake pedal was back to its previous norm, so working fine.
However, I visit a relative who has a slope running down from their drive (kerb level) to road surface level.
When I reverse down this slope, the brake pedal goes right down to the floor and fails to operate the brakes and I have to use the hand-brake to stop.
I'm not trying to push accelerator and brake at the same time.
It's a bit perturbing when it happens.

Of course, I could avoid the problem by backing onto the drive and then driving forward to exit but I'd rather get the problem sorted out.

Any suggestions as to what the fault might be, before I go back to the dealers again?

The vehicle is a Zafira Tourer.
Thanks

When your car is on a slope, air is collecting in the master cylinder, which is the highest
point when the car is parked on a slope,
Drive up the slope, then reverse straight away, see what happens, if the brake work
ok then it's air in the system,

 

[RTU'd]

Gentlemen, as an old time mechanic, fitter this brake problem should not be taken lightly. I do not disagree with what has been suggested, however we are talking serious injury if the brakes fail at the wrong time. Take the car to a professional, explain the problem, he will no doubt complete a total system check, in order to determine the reason for persistent pressure failure. This is one area in any vehicle that must work correctly and efficiently at all times. Might cost a Bob or two, but it will put your mind to rest! Obedon.

Are you the Don Felton, friend of Ronnie Pickering best driver in Yorkshire?

 

[dingerr]

Took the car in for annual main dealer servicing a few months back.
Paid for a brake fluid change.
Afterwards, there was a lot more play in the brake pedal, I was having to push the pedal down quite a bit further before the brakes operated.
Took it back to the dealers who did another fluid change but said they had seen nothing wrong with it.
After the second change, brake pedal was back to its previous norm, so working fine.
However, I visit a relative who has a slope running down from their drive (kerb level) to road surface level.
When I reverse down this slope, the brake pedal goes right down to the floor and fails to operate the brakes and I have to use the hand-brake to stop.
I'm not trying to push accelerator and brake at the same time.
It's a bit perturbing when it happens.

Of course, I could avoid the problem by backing onto the drive and then driving forward to exit but I'd rather get the problem sorted out.

Any suggestions as to what the fault might be, before I go back to the dealers again?

The vehicle is a Zafira Tourer.
Thanks

Don’t listen to these muppets, you need my expertise.

The fücking things fücking fücked.

Hope this helps.

PS serves you right for driving a Vauxhall. Twunt.

 

[MoleBath]

If you are a member of the RAC or AA speak to them, Also meticulously log and note all tp calls to garage. Print out e mails for reference. One likes to sort out amicably but be prepared.

 

[RTU'd]

If you are a member of the RAC or AA speak to them, Also meticulously log and note all tp calls to garage. Print out e mails for reference. One likes to sort out amicably but be prepared.

Argh yes call out the AA/RAC say you "think" you have a brake issue?
They diagnose it for you & saves money on fault finding, might even fix it?

 

[Moderator]

Are you the Don Felton, friend of Ronnie Pickering best driver in Yorkshire?

Ronnie Who?

The fücking things fücking fücked.

I hate smart-arrses who go give it all the proper technical terminology...

yes call out the AA/RAC

And when they turn up, helpfully repeat Dingerr’s technical diagnosis word for word. It may save some time.

 

[Helm]

bit o' C4 will sort it

 

[Stanchion]

Argh yes call out the AA/RAC say you "think" you have a brake issue?
They diagnose it for you & saves money on fault finding, might even fix it?

AA used to have a policy of not looking at brake problems at the roadside but would arrange for you to be towed into a local garage or one of your choice, and then payable from that point on. I don't know if they still have that policy

 

[MoleBath]

Argh yes call out the AA/RAC say you "think" you have a brake issue?
They diagnose it for you & saves money on fault finding, might even fix it?

No I meant their legal team and also find out POSSIBLE cost of an engineer report.

 

[ericferret]

I have previously had a problem with water in the system. When liquid it is incompressible, however if the brakes get hot it turns to steam and acts in the same way as air in the system.
Assuming the fluid changes were carried out properly this should not be the problem "assuming".

 

[flieslikeabeagle]

Air in the system gives a spongy pedal

If it has rear cylinders pull off the drums and check the auto adjusters aren't seized

you didn't answer if it was drums or discs at the rear , if it is drums and the adjuster have siezed all the travel in the pedal goes to moving the shoes outwards , check this by pumping the brake , if it firms up have a look inside the brake drums , a service kit will cost about £35 on line or from your factors
the picture doesnt show the actual adjuster , but all the small springs point to a sliding type
if it is a disc , very

worn pads could give the same lack of pedal