Boycotting Messes Due To PAYD?

Discussion in 'RLC' started by Horridlittleman, May 11, 2007.

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  1. Although the transition to PAYD has been relatively painless in the Mess where I live I have heard the duty rumours of entire messes (both Officers' and WOs' & SNCOs') boycotting the new system.

    The worst thing I've experienced in our mess is the poor distribution of food. Fortunately we have some cracking chefs who have worked very hard to maintain the high standard of our meals.

    Has anyone got any news of particular interest in how PAYD is developing across the Army?
  2. in my current capacity i get to visit many FF units....

    ..of late i've experienced some shocking standards, which i attribute to 3 causes.

    1. PAYD...i was recently barked at by a contractor that if i wanted scrambled egg it would be an extra 23p.

    2. The contractor's tail is now wagging the Army / Defence's dog

    3. And, fundamentally, its our fault, as mess members for putting up with this sh! many messes apathy reigns and it will only get worse!
  3. Not having been in a PAYD mess, how different is it? Tea and Toast springs to mind. Any "points to note" for when ours goes over this year??
  4. Tea and toast hasn't ever featured in the mess I live in due to it not being a unit mess, meaning there's less impetus to meet up informally through the working day.

    Breakfast is charged per item down to whether you have butter or margarine, however there is a "special" which basically allows you to have a reasonable breakfast cooked/toast/cereal/tea/juice for about £1.

    Lunch is bar snacks with soup of the day and a chefs special. All items are priced individually and for Livers Out it is no change from the old system. For LiMs there is no more soup, main course and tea paid for from the DMR!

    Dinner consists of 2 core menu options for starter/ main course and dessert, with each of these you have to pay extra for potatoes and veg. There is also a retail option which is more expensive (not necessarily better quality though!) however you don't pay extra for potatoes and veg. There is also a retail option for starter and dessert.

    One change which works nicely (and was adapted from a mess members experience of PAYD with a RE mess) is that extra messing is levied against the evening meal. So breakfast and lunch is the flat rate for whatever you eat, yet if you have dinner you also pay the extra messing for the day.

    Generally it is not too bad, although I'm waiting for my first mess bill with all of the food charges for the month (as long as my wines element exceeds the food I’ll be happy!!!)

    Like I said in my initial post the chefs have worked like demons to continue to produce good quality food. Unfortunately the contractor is not giving them the support they should, however this should be changing next week.
  5. Tea and toast has finished. No longer do we have extra messing and the night tray has finished. The food is ok but we have noticed that we now get smaller plates to give inpression of larger meal. The staff are very helpful but as they say "off the record" senior management are pushing for more profits every month. Doesnt help when the supplier charges 38p for a pint of milk when it's cheaper at the supermarket.
  6. The general principle with PAYD is you get what you pay for.

    Want better food? You can have it as long as the mess members agree to pay for it.

    Core menu really is a red-herring for officers messes as it is designed for the soldiers cookhouse to ensure that the lads can get a balanced meal at minimum price as opposed to a Mess quality meal.

    How it is implemented depends a lot on the wishes of the Mess. There is a great deal of flexibility available in the way Mess wishes to proceed.

    As with all things there are winners and losers. The biggest losers are the over 37s and other bean stealers who eat three big meals a day. Biggest winners are those who used to pay for 3 meals plus extra messing, but not eat much.
  7. HLM,

    Haven't got the JSP to hand but if what you state is correct then you are either not on PAYD or the contract is not being monitored properly.

    If my memory serves me correctly breakfast consists of 6 core items (inc bacon, sausage, egg, tomatoes, bread etc) of which you cannot take more than 2 of each type + a drink. This is all included within the DMR rate and you only pay extra if you exceed this 'quota'.

    Can't recall the detail on lunch but in messes (JR definitely) the minimum offer is 5 x core menu options for the main course. The decision on whether or not you pay extra messing is entirely down to the mess members.

    If you ain't getting what you are entitled to then raise the issue through your Supervising Officer (normally the QM).

  8. Having sampled food from all three of the services when i was "in", and now enjoying the delights of PAYD at a naval base, i must say that i am more than impressed with the quality and choice provided by the contractor. The only messes that were comparable were at RAF Gatow, where steaks and breakfasts were cooked to order, even for junior ranks. And RAF Cottesmore, when it was a showcase due to the Germans and Italians being there. Basically there will always be moaners, wow 23p for scrambled egg! at least you have the choice of where to spend your money, we didn't.
  9. A mate of mine is working (under duress) on the implementation team for the RAF. As he said, this is 'what was wanted' when the troops were asked. We're going to get it and we're not going to like it. It is squarely aimed at the cookhouse and the way the other messes were run for so long is heading out of the window - which is a shame. You should still be able to get a 'core' set of meals that would equate to what your daily deduction was and that is a contractual requirement. They're not going to give anything away are they?
  10. the issue isn't the 23p, which is as you point out, significantly cheaper that the old system.

    Messes, once hallowed ground, inspirational and the heart of regt life, are degenerating into transport cafes with lilo-lil civvy mess-hands barking orders at mess members!

    That isn't what i expect in either mess.
  11. So what's changed under PAYD or contractorisation? The military sets the reqt and the contractor provides it.

    However, the problem may lie in how the reqt has been specified within the contract or how it is being interpreted within the contract. This may be something to do with the fact that the RF elms are negotiating and setting the contracts, or equally the fact that the end user cannot be bothered to respond to consultation papers or attend stakeholder meetings.

    There may of course be good reason for this - the user generally concentrates on op business, and with the plethora of change initiatives currently in train, PAYD may take a very low pri. Even so, my experience is that even when a problem with a service is identified the user generally tries to find a workaround rather than take the more time-consuming, but ultimately more beneficial, route of altering contractor behaviour.

    Before you ask I don't particularly like contractorisation or PAYD and it's not part of my day to day job. The reality is though that we are where we are, there's no going back in the short-term, and the solution lies in people taking the trouble to monitor, report and influence poor service, rather than dwelling on the (not so) good old days.

    Incidentally, why do you allow contractor staff to bark at you? Deal with it when it occurs and it is likely not to re-occur.

  12. Unfortunately that was happening in messes run by civi contractors long before PAYD. I once received an attempted bollocking from the RSM because I asked the civi chef "who the fu"k he thought he was speaking to" when he tried to tell me off for taking 2 sausages!

    Not a problem with not being allowed 2 sausages (didn't have bacon, thought it was reasonable!), but I do have a serious problem with contracted civi c"nts who think they can get away with talking to mess members like pieces of shite and then go running to the RSM when they get a bit of the same back.