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What is the point of these if just turning up on the weekend and attempting them is good enough to get a pass?Its not as if they are
very difficult . OK apwt is difficult if you havent fired live rounds for a while
but then you have to take the practise as available and an infantry soldier should be able to pass it .Recognition if you weak in this practise ditto
first aid.NBC your life your choice .CFT I hate these with a vengence always have probably allways will but got fed up of ending up on jack wagon so i got out my bergan and started running with weight till i could pass it ok it hurts . So you look a berk running on your own sweating like a pig and breathing out your hoop
in boots and with a bergan on your back ,but do you want to finish with the squad or in the rover ?
I realised my weakness and did something about it ok I still have a long way to go till i dont have to put 110 % to get round in time ,but come sunday afternoon everyone who attempted has passed .What incentive is there for soldiers to improve if they just have to turn up to pass?
The last ITD training weekend was a joke within our Regiment.

NBC - Mask off, NRN out = Tick in the Box
APWT - Group & Zero = Tick in the box
BFAT - Not bad, local medic unit came in and ran it. only plus of the weekend
CFT - No PTI's as all were on Telic, therefor it became our CO's March = Tick in the Box

A joke to be honest. NBC is a big thing with me you should have to do it all a big problem just now is lack of Kit. QM cant get his finger out and indent for gear.

As it stood all our guys passed all the ITD subjects over 1.1/2 days which included a 1800hrs finish on Sat night and a 1200hrs finish on the Sunday.

Still who am i to change it.


Its this type of thing that gives the T.A. a bad name! If a soldier is mobilised he/she will be expected to pass these tests, so if people are only 'shaded' through then how do they know they are fit for role?
Soldiers in the T.A. should train as if they expect to get mobilised, otherwise they are taking the Queens shilling under false pretenses. If people wish to carry out military training and not get called up then perhaps they should find another way of 'scratching' that particular itch.
Woody you did the right thing there by going into training,its what should happen with all T.A. personel in an ideal world. A T.A. soldiers fitness has become an increasingly personal thing with the limits placed on training days. It should also be a matter of pride to'make the grade' I have struggled occasionally myself especially when mega busy, but was amazed last time on a cft by how many took the ride of shame, there will always be genuine reasons for some to drop out on some days but these where barely sweating, and mostly younguns (apart from the profesional PT dodger who didn't even start it!)
Waffle finished for now. out. 8O
If your unit treats ITD's as a joke then I suggest you transfer as its probably indicative of other problems in that unit.

I've just changed signals units, I couldn't believe TA Signals units could be so different. For example the CFT was far harder, fired full APWT and I had to revise for NBC. (I haven't worked out why I found the CFT was harder, its a standard test so it shouldn't have been)

Most of the other patronising ITD's have been binned, (Drug Awarness, Law of Armed Conflict etc), its the same video each time anyway.

All other training is harder to. The end result is I feel far more competent at my job and saved loads of dosh. (My old unit partyed nearly every weekend).

Why doesn't TAVRA inspect the units and force the poor units to make changes.
Dear All,

At this risk of stirring things up:

JockSapper, whoever organised your CMT w/e should get a grip, it is not hard to get a PTI from another unit to come in and organise the CFT. I can't believe that there is a shortage of NBC kit - what are you missing?

PolarBear, whoever is organising your ITDs needs to apply a bit of imagination - the local constabulary will come and do the alcohol one for you, together with some good slides demonstrating the results of drinking and driving, plus you may be able to get them to 'breathalyse' people in the bar afterwards.

Woody, if you have to run on the CFT, then something is wrong. It can be completed at a brisk walking pace.

Personally I think CFT should be binned and that everyone should get into the green zone for the BPFA. The rest are skills which can be taught prior to mobilisation at Chilwell.

u can only do a CFT at a brisk walking pace if your not part of a squad or in I suppose a infantry unit.

The poor fitness of others means u spend most of the CFT motivating others or doing catch up cause someone in front is struggling.

I agree with u tho, good idea the CFT but it needs replacing.
never ever done a cft when we didnt double at some point
replace cft with what ? A timed section attack ? infantry must be able to
move quickly carrying a combat load cft is the nearist thing we got
should be green in bpfa as well . Since when has drugs and alchol been itd?
thought for bounty it was
first aid
recognition vechile
equal opptunities
msr said:
JockSapper, whoever organised your CMT w/e should get a grip, it is not hard to get a PTI from another unit to come in and organise the CFT. I can't believe that there is a shortage of NBC kit - what are you missing?
We have no DKP1 or 2, We dont have enough suits, basically the QM doesnt bother his fat ring in ordering the gear and the unit doesnt bother making sure we have all the kit prior to ITD training. Personally i always have a full compliment of all the NBC kit i need (NBC instructer you see) and ive lost count how many times ive brought the lack of kit subject up at Training Conferances.

The PTI subject was a joke, christ we used an outside unit for our First Aid ITD training.
Doesn't anyone else find the CFT dull and boring. Can't the rules be bent
to make it competitive?
E.g. remove the minimum time limit. Alternatively make it more like the BFT, march out as a squad and return at your own pace.

Drugs awarness/Substance abuse, Law of Armed conflict, etc

I thought they came in 4 years ago.
Polarbear, you are exactly right about the CFT

I believe that the other ITDs are not mandatory for the TA.

TA Regs spotters please correct me if I am wrong.

this is one for the regimental trg majors, but there was a lot of talk recently that on ex if a group of men carrying a equivalent weight doing the equivalent distance (whether it's a advance to contact or anything else) completed it in a similar time, then it could be written off as a cft. some brigades are happy with this, and others aren't.

itd's -
attempt all and pass 3 of:
aosp st 1
(both to be passed for bounty)
first aid

the above are needed for fit for role, but the other itd's are still there to be completed.
Think the reason the cft is set at certain time is to prevent casualties
by people trying to run it as fast as possible or beast their group round
running it as a competitive event would make it more dangerous in warm weather ( its the fit blokes who are at risk of heat stroke the unfit give up before it becomes too painful) its a test thats all .
alchol drug awareness leave that to regular recruits .all ta need to know drugs you cant do them . drinking anyone not know what sensible drinking is too stupid to be in ta anyway :)
we dont have enough training time as it is should be spent on military skills nothing else .IF it doesent help me kill the enemy or keep myself and my mates alive why do i need to know it ?Or for corp personnel do my trade better . ( No offence to corp personnel just ignorant of what your
training involves )
woody said:
Think the reason the cft is set at certain time is to prevent casualties
The CFT is has a specific finish time frame because the level of fitness needed to complete the march with the specified weight in the specified time is what the army consider to be the basic level of fitness required by the soldier (arm/service dependent). The regular BCFT is 12.8km loaded march in 1hr 55 min which is basically double the TA standard. The procedures and conditions are the same for both. The reduced distance is (apparently) to take into account the lower training status of the 'majority' of the TA. Risk of injury/casualties come into the equasion when the weight/distance and speed is increased and the soldier either has not been trained to this level or the ground/weather and conditions give a higher level of risk - and that is where risk assessments come in.
polarbear said:
Why doesn't TAVRA inspect the units and force the poor units to make changes.
Polarbear - all due respect I think you've missed the point of what TAVRA (not called that any more BTW - it's RFCA these days) is for. They have nothing whatsoever to do with training standards. Recruiting, employer support and buildings are their big things.

IMHO ITD standards have more to do with the attitiude of the people at the top. CO usually sets the standard and dictates what ITDs have to be completed/passed and which merely attempted. After all it's the CO who signs the efficiency cert at the end of the training year.

Agree totally with whoever said concentrate on BPFA green zone - it's a good measure of all round fitness - we used to do it with recruits and it worked well. Better I think than the CFT which can be very variable - not quite the same trotting round some camp on SPTA as it is on Dartmoor (where we did it a few years ago...... :cry: )
All good points. Does anyone know what the time limits are if someone fails ITD 1-5 without passing 3, attempting, etc.

If you fail a TA CFT, is their a time limit on how long you have to pass it etc, what about the other ITDs, if you dont pass is their a time limit?
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