Boris - The Prime Minister

First thoughts on PMBoris, will he make a difference?


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UncivilServant

Old-Salt
RIP sis.

Will you be punching out the person that allowed the virus into the home as well?
No. Who would you blame? The staff? Visiting doctors and medical staff? Delivery men? The virus was an unknown quantity and knowledge and advice was constantly changing. It still is to an extent. The problem is that most of the people that died were already suffering from all sorts of serious illnesses and were probably on the way out anyway.

I'd still like to give Morgan a dig though.
 
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Trans-sane

LE
Book Reviewer
No. Who would you blame? The staff? Visiting doctors and medical staff? Delivery men? The virus was an unknown quantity and knowledge and advice was constantly changing. It still is to an extent. The problem is that most of the people that died were already suffering from all sorts of serious illnesses and were probably on the way out anyway.

I'd still like to give Morgan a dig though.
Exactly the sort of.people that shuffle off every year due to seasonal flu in army group sized numbers and no.one bats am eye then?
 

Truxx

LE
No. Who would you blame? The staff? Visiting doctors and medical staff? Delivery men? The virus was an unknown quantity and knowledge and advice was constantly changing. It still is to an extent. The problem is that most of the people that died were already suffering from all sorts of serious illnesses and were probably on the way out anyway.

I'd still like to give Morgan a dig though.
The staff.

In particular the person who allowed the mandated shielding to be breached and the correct barrier nursing protocols to be shortcut.

Someone, very close to your sis, did not do what they should have done.

But I am truly sorry for your loss.
 
For me the most logical explanations for the removal of the party whip from Lewis are either:

1) Looking at the Tory Party's horrendous record of discipline over the last Parliament they wanted to stamp out any further silliness.

Or:

2) There's something bad in the Report that they want buried.

I would put my money on (1), but my betting record is tonk.

Regardless, this is a bad move by the Government IMHO, which is unlikely to have the effect desired in the case of (1), and even less likely to be useful if (2) is right.
You could have added

3) Cummings is an absolute control freak who has spat his dummy out again.

They've withdrawn the whip from a loyal party member over an issue where whipping is not allowed, thrown a dead cat onto the table in the form of the latest news about Russian interference and nobody is questioning the selection of Major Disaster as chair by Johnson in the first place.

Grayling's probably a nice enough guy but FFS, he's a walking train crash.
 
You could have added

3) Cummings is an absolute control freak who has spat his dummy out again.

They've withdrawn the whip from a loyal party member over an issue where whipping is not allowed, thrown a dead cat onto the table in the form of the latest news about Russian interference and nobody is questioning the selection of Major Disaster as chair by Johnson in the first place.

Grayling's probably a nice enough guy but FFS, he's a walking train crash.
The most likely. He has form, like his sacking Sonia Khan.
Boris probably replied "who?" when he got the cc'd memo.
 

Themanwho

LE
Book Reviewer
You could have added
3) Cummings is an absolute control freak who has spat his dummy out again.
They've withdrawn the whip from a loyal party member over an issue where whipping is not allowed, thrown a dead cat onto the table in the form of the latest news about Russian interference and nobody is questioning the selection of Major Disaster as chair by Johnson in the first place.
Grayling's probably a nice enough guy but FFS, he's a walking train crash.
Agreed on the bold above, but for the rest I think you're exhibiting the classic symptoms of Cummings derangement syndrome. Not everything is down to him - he's an adviser, not the Devil incarnate.

The more I think about this, it seems to me to be Boris over reacting to a (justifiable) Parliamentary Party rebellion to prevent the crayon eater becoming milk monitor. It's understandable if you look at last year's tribulations with a significant number of Tory MPs in open revolt to the rule of Boris; combined with the (justifiable) Huawei contretemps, I believe Boris has decided to draw a line in the sand and assert his authority. Lewis is the salutary example for any future rebels: "FFS! if they do that to a loyal trooper like Lewis, I think I'll keep quiet until someone bigger than me makes a noise".

I think it's a mistake, trying to put a known failure into the chair of the Intelligence Select Committee was not the hill to die on IMHO, but then I (and you) are not party to all the information.
 
The staff.

In particular the person who allowed the mandated shielding to be breached and the correct barrier nursing protocols to be shortcut.

Someone, very close to your sis, did not do what they should have done.

But I am truly sorry for your loss.
Vague guidance from government had a big part to play, provision of PPE down to the care home owners/providers and pay levels are minimum wage. Not a good combination.

For the future, any government giving big tax breaks to people to convert a garage/loft into a granny flat to keep their nearest and dearest closer to home would be along the way to getting my vote.

@UncivilServant condolences from myself as well.
 
Agreed on the bold above, but for the rest I think you're exhibiting the classic symptoms of Cummings derangement syndrome. Not everything is down to him - he's an adviser, not the Devil incarnate.

The more I think about this, it seems to me to be Boris over reacting to a (justifiable) Parliamentary Party rebellion to prevent the crayon eater becoming milk monitor. It's understandable if you look at last year's tribulations with a significant number of Tory MPs in open revolt to the rule of Boris; combined with the (justifiable) Huawei contretemps, I believe Boris has decided to draw a line in the sand and assert his authority. Lewis is the salutary example for any future rebels: "FFS! if they do that to a loyal trooper like Lewis, I think I'll keep quiet until someone bigger than me makes a noise".

I think it's a mistake, trying to put a known failure into the chair of the Intelligence Select Committee was not the hill to die on IMHO, but then I (and you) are not party to all the information.
There's nothing deranged in my comments at all, I introduced Cummings to most of this board in the run up to the referendum. I like him but he's still a first class mentalist who sacks people in the blink of an eye. This has his fingerprints all over it. We got a new chancellor because of him didn't we?

Cummings is an unsackable adviser, people have gone for much less than his indiscretions. Why is he still there?

Using Lewis to set an example? Losing the whip for something which isn't whippable(sp) is ludicrous. How many examples do they need to set?
 

UncivilServant

Old-Salt
The staff.

In particular the person who allowed the mandated shielding to be breached and the correct barrier nursing protocols to be shortcut.

Someone, very close to your sis, did not do what they should have done.

But I am truly sorry for your loss.
Well, we have different opinions on that. You more than likely are better informed than me on the matter. I just feel that for me, it is pointless trying to apportion blame. It happened and me tearing myself up looking for a culprit isn't going to a). Make me feel any better and b). Won't bring her back.
Thanks for your condolences though, appreciated.
 

UncivilServant

Old-Salt
Vague guidance from government had a big part to play, provision of PPE down to the care home owners/providers and pay levels are minimum wage. Not a good combination.

For the future, any government giving big tax breaks to people to convert a garage/loft into a granny flat to keep their nearest and dearest closer to home would be along the way to getting my vote.

@UncivilServant condolences from myself as well.
Thank you.
 

Themanwho

LE
Book Reviewer
There's nothing deranged in my comments at all, I introduced Cummings to most of this board in the run up to the referendum. I like him but he's still a first class mentalist who sacks people in the blink of an eye. This has his fingerprints all over it. We got a new chancellor because of him didn't we?

Cummings is an unsackable adviser, people have gone for much less than his indiscretions. Why is he still there?

Using Lewis to set an example? Losing the whip for something which isn't whippable(sp) is ludicrous. How many examples do they need to set?
Yes , Lewis losing the whip for this is ridiculous hence my comments. How many examples? Hopefully no more like this.

But what is your proof that this is down to Cummings, other than he’s your favourite boogeyman?
 
Yes , Lewis losing the whip for this is ridiculous hence my comments. How many examples? Hopefully no more like this.

But what is your proof that this is down to Cummings, other than he’s your favourite boogeyman?
I think Lewis losing the whip is more to do with No 10 sending a very strong message to all Conservative MPs that organising and agitating behind the PMs back and against government policy is not going to be allowed to gain traction and bring down the government which, if it carries on the way it has been doing, it surely will.
 
thrown a dead cat onto the table in the form of the latest news about Russian interference
Oh woah there matey, Let me cast you mind back to the US elections when TRUMP was castigated for making those allegations which have proven to be true and now your saying that Russian interference with internal policy matters is less of a problem. As usual the there is no evidence lobby- of course there's no tangible evidence- there's not meant to be. But that last quote was eminently suitable for @ KGB resident
 

4(T)

LE
Cummings is an unsackable adviser, people have gone for much less than his indiscretions. Why is he still there?

Probably because he is the only effective in government, and without him the Tories would literally have no leadership, direction or visible delivery. DC is probably the only person that both friend and foe give credence to if they want to know what the government is doing - an astonishing situation.

I appreciate that BJ has his supporters, here on Arrse and elsewhere, but to me he is validating my impression that he really is simply p*ss and wind - another liberal "hobby" PM a la Cameron, and similarly without any driving vision (let alone "conservatism") or competencies beyond bluff bonhomie.
 
The staff.

In particular the person who allowed the mandated shielding to be breached and the correct barrier nursing protocols to be shortcut.

Someone, very close to your sis, did not do what they should have done.

But I am truly sorry for your loss.
I have to disagree. I don't think you can blame care home staff for not adhering to protocols they will have had little or no training in, and in any case, there's no way of knowing at what stage the infection entered that particular care home, so it may well have been before any extra precautions were mandated.
 
I have to disagree. I don't think you can blame care home staff for not adhering to protocols they will have had little or no training in, and in any case, there's no way of knowing at what stage the infection entered that particular care home, so it may well have been before any extra precautions were mandated.
Agreed.

It is an utter waste of time and effort trying to point the finger of blame at anyone.

We do not even know for certain when this virus entered the UK, FFS.

There are reports from France and Italy that they believe they have identified cases from Nov / Dec 2019.

A patient treated in a hospital near Paris on 27 December for suspected pneumonia actually had the coronavirus, his doctor has said.

The patient, who has since recovered, said he had no idea where he caught the virus as he had not travelled abroad.

Yet China, where it is supposed to have come from did not start kicking off until nearly the end of January 2020.
 

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