Boris - The Prime Minister

First thoughts on PMBoris, will he make a difference?


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StormsInAfrica

Old-Salt
This is what was behind a massive and coordinated attempt in the media to force Cummings out over his ill-advised Covid 19 trip.

Cummings is big on performance measurement and payment by results. There are going to be numbers of CS getting bigger bonuses for performing well and greater numbers spending more time with their families.

Add into the mix that people assigned to projects will be with them for the full term and not rotated out of them half way through so the impact of any f-up by them will be very apparent and you can see why the CS is worried.

Particular howls have been coming because if the head of the CS can be removed for a less than stellar performance, lesser fry can be removed even easier. For a long time there has been no penalty for failure in the CS - that's about to be introduced. And a lot of CS don't like it.

Wordsmith
I for one would love to see team bonuses at ABW.

Not the miserly forced distribution crap that encourages peers to horde skillsets in order to get on top.

A condition of being promoted to Band B should be that you are to remain with a project throughout it's lifecycle. Particularly the CADMI phases.

It all starts with the requirement and the requirment management. Then we need the contractual mechanisms to hold industry to account.

I'm quite looking forward to Cummins (who clearly values systems thinking) getting stuck into DE&S.
 
New legislation passed, as promised:

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That isn't rain in the streets.......it's peoples tears........remain voters tears.........tears of the left...........tears of the mentally unstable.
 

Auld-Yin

ADC
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Reviews Editor
I for one would love to see team bonuses at ABW.

Not the miserly forced distribution crap that encourages peers to horde skillsets in order to get on top.

A condition of being promoted to Band B should be that you are to remain with a project throughout it's lifecycle. Particularly the CADMI phases.

It all starts with the requirement and the requirment management. Then we need the contractual mechanisms to hold industry to account.

I'm quite looking forward to Cummins (who clearly values systems thinking) getting stuck into DE&S.
And when those stuck in a project see others not so hidebound leapfrogging them - what happens to morale?
 
And when those stuck in a project see others not so hidebound leapfrogging them - what happens to morale?
This. All too often, I've seen people do the absolute minimum time in a particular post before making the jump to another job. Turn up, make a big noise (usually about how awesome they are), jump ship before it hits the rocks, escape blame. Meanwhile, those trying to make it work have to watch as the next Bright Young Thing arrives with a loud and confident voice, and a really bad case of Dunning-Kruger.

I worked in one firm where we had four Managing Directors in five years, all of whom had the career astronaut track record above (third one was known as "The Milky Bar Kid")... the fourth actually stayed, supported the turnaround of the big (£300m) project that had broken all his predecessors, and gained a reputation as a God Among Engineers.
 
Do you have a summary of key points?
Sorry, no. It was quite long with over 100 numbered paragraphs.

Sebastian Payne has written a summary if that helps:

 

Auld-Yin

ADC
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Reviews Editor
This. All too often, I've seen people do the absolute minimum time in a particular post before making the jump to another job. Turn up, make a big noise (usually about how awesome they are), jump ship before it hits the rocks, escape blame. Meanwhile, those trying to make it work have to watch as the next Bright Young Thing arrives with a loud and confident voice, and a really bad case of Dunning-Kruger.

I worked in one firm where we had four Managing Directors in five years, all of whom had the career astronaut track record above (third one was known as "The Milky Bar Kid")... the fourth actually stayed, supported the turnaround of the big (£300m) project that had broken all his predecessors, and gained a reputation as a God Among Engineers.
That's not the point I believe @StormsInAfrica was making. He contends that where a civil servant is appointed to a project that he/she stays with that project to its conclusion, or at least the conclusion of the element they are working in. This project work should not then be seen as a hold on promotion and CS should be able to promote in post rather than be promoted out of the project.
 

StormsInAfrica

Old-Salt
That's not the point I believe @StormsInAfrica was making. He contends that where a civil servant is appointed to a project that he/she stays with that project to its conclusion, or at least the conclusion of the element they are working in. This project work should not then be seen as a hold on promotion and CS should be able to promote in post rather than be promoted out of the project.
I agree 100% that this would be difficult to manage in reality.

For me, i've been on the same team for 5 years and seen it go from assessment phase to D&M and taken it into service, promoting twice in that time.

Admittedly the operating centre i'm in lends itself to lengthy timescales, however in that time i've seen numerous project managers jump ship as critical points loom, particularly ahead of acceptance where all the ghouls baked in during concept and assessment rise up.

I think that there are other operating centers supporting stuff with much shorter lifecycle phases. If that's your thing then you can tailor your career to that.

What i'd like to see is a PM be told 'right - you're locked into this through X lifecycle phase. Good looks like you getting this through initial gate and on to contract' for example. You can then look to promote in post/be given a large financial incentive to remain with the project through Y phase'.

It's not just CS than can bodge it and scarper. Requirements Managers do it, as do contractors.

*ETA: not just PMs - project controllers, finance and engineers too.
 
Sorry, no. It was quite long with over 100 numbered paragraphs.

Sebastian Payne has written a summary if that helps:

I note the repeated use of "The Forgotten man", I wonder if that's a call to all the WASP's that feel ignored.
 
Sorry, no. It was quite long with over 100 numbered paragraphs.

Sebastian Payne has written a summary if that helps:

Thanks for sharing, it looks to be a fantastic lecture. I have a lot of time for Gove and I’m in awe of what he did at the DoE. If only we had more ministers of his caliber.
 
I'm not sure the Working Class as is traditionally termed still exists. If however, you mean Working and Non-working classes, then you might have a point.
The 'working class' met their expectations and pulled themselves up out of 'tit pit lad. They're now more what you'd term lower middle class. Labour appeals to immigrants and the non working class.
 
White Anglo Saxon Protestant.
I don’t agree that these people are “forgotten”. It’s the working classes who are.
I'm still confused. Where was the specific mention of any ethnicity or religion being represented by "Forgotten man"?

Or did you just invent some nonsense in order to criticise something you clearly didn't understand.
 

Themanwho

LE
Book Reviewer
I'm still confused. Where was the specific mention of any ethnicity or religion being represented by "Forgotten man"?

Or did you just invent some nonsense in order to criticise something you clearly didn't understand.
What are you on about? It was @Listy who used the term and I was just explaining to you what it meant.
 
That's not the point I believe @StormsInAfrica was making. He contends that where a civil servant is appointed to a project that he/she stays with that project to its conclusion, or at least the conclusion of the element they are working in. This project work should not then be seen as a hold on promotion and CS should be able to promote in post rather than be promoted out of the project.

I broadly agree with that but some projects are extremely long! I hve been in my role now for 5 years and see no reason why I couldnt stay here for at least another 5 as it is one of the UKs biggest projects but that is only because the location/hours suits my personal circumstances and the job is of a secondary importance to me. I would hate to think of being stuck in the project for its complete duration if I wasnt so content or wanted promotion/more challenge/to chase more wages. I think your age is a big factor too - I've already had a full, extended Army career (28 years) with a pension to top up my CS wages, if I was a young'un I'd probably be jumping at every opportunity:)
 
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