Boris - The Prime Minister

First thoughts on PMBoris, will he make a difference?


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Themanwho

LE
Book Reviewer

daz

LE
Time will tell. However I'm am confused by a Government led by populism and the politics of the mob.
If they were led by "the politics of the mob", DC would have been sacked, Sir Kier would have been invited to take up a cabinet post etc, etc
 

sirbhp

LE
Book Reviewer
anywun seen Boris B O R IS , Sung to the chewn of mi ole man is a dustman .
 
You introduced Ethical Journalism Standards.

I give you
  • Cliff Richard Fiasco
  • Phone Tapping Scandal
  • Any number of other Scandals.
Correct, you do not have much to say when you try and talk about ethical journalism.

In much the same way as the great British Bobby always tells the Truth, the whole Truth and nothing but the Truth.

Now if only the UK didn't have so many:
  • Miscarriages of Justice
  • Resignations before Investigations
  • Convicted Coppers.
Guess
anywun seen Boris B O R IS , Sung to the chewn of mi ole man is a dustman .
Looks like you mean:
‘Anybody here seen Kelly,
K E double L Y
...
Kelly from the Isle of Man’
Different tune.
 

Chimp

ADC
If they were led by "the politics of the mob", DC would have been sacked, Sir Kier would have been invited to take up a cabinet post etc, etc
My bad - missed out the word arrogance.
 
So, as this is a thread about the Prime Minister, for those that like him - what personal qualities does he have that you admire and respect?

I came up with 'intelligent', and that was about it.


My bold … I have actually met him a few times, in & around Henley o Thames, when he was our local MP.
The first time was when the local police station was being closed down. I went up to him while he was on a walkabout and asked him why his was happening, as although HoT was a peaceful, law abiding place most of the time it would be invaded by loads of yobbish youths from places like Reading, High Wycombe and Slough at weekends who caused lots of problems for the local hostelries, plus the fact that an acquaintance of mine had just had to close his upmarket & expensive gents outfitters as he had had his shop windows smashed in & metal security grids ripped out by the same criminal gang on 3 occasions in a 6 month period, resulting in his insurance company refusing to insure him again as there was no police cover in the town & the quickest police response time to his linked alarm was 30 minutes from Reading. this was just after the police had already cut all but the daylight hours opening of the same station.
Before Boris could answer, the police inspector who was accompanying him butted in and said "Ah well, its a very old Victorian era station with few modern facilities" then he added "The cells don't even have central heating!" At which Boris & I exchanged a look which said "Oh what a shame … NOT!"
He sympathised when I explained the reasons I was concerned and told the Inspector to make sure that HoT had adequate patrols at weekends as it appeared there was a problem. To be fair there was a noticeable increase in patrols at weekends, at least for a while!
Boris seemed to me to be approachable with a common sense view on things who seemed to listen to people, that's what I like about him!!
 
Bumbling Boris is an Oxford graduate, can recite the Iliad from memory, in Greek. Has written multiple books and been mayor of London, and is now the Prime minister of the UK. If that is how you define "bumbling" I'd love to see your idea of competence.
He's just not good at public speaking but don't let that fool you

I don’t doubt that he (and his wider family) are intelligent, witty, engaging and affable. Being a good dinner party guest doesn’t make you a good leader of your country in arguably its greatest crisis science WW2.

A small example, If he had more effective intelligence and emotional intelligence, he would have got and listened to some honest feedback from someone prepared to speak truth unto power on his last 2 pre-recorded messages to the nation and then had them rescripted and re-recorded. They were both rambling and incoherent and utterly risible to the country at large. It’s not about soaring oratory, but it is about clear communication.

There’s 2 views here. One is that it’s all going swimmingly, a bunch of snowflakes and the woke are getting their knickers in a twist about a bad case of the ‘flu. There’s another view and that is that the government’s response is a shit show. The lunatics will say that its conspiracy, others will say that its cock up.

In some(?) months, the final tally will be in, public enquiries would have their initial reports in probably, and we will all have a much better idea of what has gone well and what has not. Happy to eat my virtual hat if BJ has done the business and better for the country short and long term if that is the case.
 

Auld-Yin

ADC
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Reviews Editor
I don’t doubt that he (and his wider family) are intelligent, witty, engaging and affable. Being a good dinner party guest doesn’t make you a good leader of your country in arguably its greatest crisis science WW2.

A small example, If he had more effective intelligence and emotional intelligence, he would have got and listened to some honest feedback from someone prepared to speak truth unto power on his last 2 pre-recorded messages to the nation and then had them rescripted and re-recorded. They were both rambling and incoherent and utterly risible to the country at large. It’s not about soaring oratory, but it is about clear communication.

There’s 2 views here. One is that it’s all going swimmingly, a bunch of snowflakes and the woke are getting their knickers in a twist about a bad case of the ‘flu. There’s another view and that is that the government’s response is a shit show. The lunatics will say that its conspiracy, others will say that its cock up.

In some(?) months, the final tally will be in, public enquiries would have their initial reports in probably, and we will all have a much better idea of what has gone well and what has not. Happy to eat my virtual hat if BJ has done the business and better for the country short and long term if that is the case.
His communication has been just fine and clear - all you have to do is look at the panicking that is happening in Brussels to see that!

As for comms over covid-19, well it started off very well, and IMO still is, but the media, in their infinite wisdom (or lack of it) decided to self appoint themselves as muddiers of the waters where it came to Covid. They were good to start with, the daily briefings, which the government are not obliged to do, were informative and initially the media reported what was said and explained it to the public at large. Then, again for reasons only known to them, the media decided that that was not good enough. Strange that it happened just about the time that Boris went in to hospital and they aw a chance of making mischief.

The media have been acting as pure cnuts over this and I would look to their actions as much as any by the government (or Opposition while you are at it).
 
I don’t doubt that he (and his wider family) are intelligent, witty, engaging and affable. Being a good dinner party guest doesn’t make you a good leader of your country in arguably its greatest crisis science WW2.

A small example, If he had more effective intelligence and emotional intelligence, he would have got and listened to some honest feedback from someone prepared to speak truth unto power on his last 2 pre-recorded messages to the nation and then had them rescripted and re-recorded. They were both rambling and incoherent and utterly risible to the country at large. It’s not about soaring oratory, but it is about clear communication.

There’s 2 views here. One is that it’s all going swimmingly, a bunch of snowflakes and the woke are getting their knickers in a twist about a bad case of the ‘flu. There’s another view and that is that the government’s response is a shit show. The lunatics will say that its conspiracy, others will say that its cock up.

In some(?) months, the final tally will be in, public enquiries would have their initial reports in probably, and we will all have a much better idea of what has gone well and what has not. Happy to eat my virtual hat if BJ has done the business and better for the country short and long term if that is the case.
You missed his most important qualification - apparently he can recite the Iliad in Greek from memory.
 
There’s 2 views here. One is that it’s all going swimmingly, a bunch of snowflakes and the woke are getting their knickers in a twist about a bad case of the ‘flu. There’s another view and that is that the government’s response is a shit show. The lunatics will say that its conspiracy, others will say that its cock up.
Or there's a third view that it's somewhere between the two extremes. There are some things the gov't has done well, but they'll never be admitted by some, and there's other things the gov't has mishandled but that'll never be admitted by others. Hindsight is always 20/20 and just because the outcome isn't right doesn't always mean that the initial premise on the course of action was wrong. Just that when dealing with probabilistic outcomes you have to accept that it isn't always possible to predict the future with 100% certainty
 
I don’t doubt that he (and his wider family) are intelligent, witty, engaging and affable. Being a good dinner party guest doesn’t make you a good leader of your country in arguably its greatest crisis science WW2.

A small example, If he had more effective intelligence and emotional intelligence, he would have got and listened to some honest feedback from someone prepared to speak truth unto power on his last 2 pre-recorded messages to the nation and then had them rescripted and re-recorded. They were both rambling and incoherent and utterly risible to the country at large. It’s not about soaring oratory, but it is about clear communication.

There’s 2 views here. One is that it’s all going swimmingly, a bunch of snowflakes and the woke are getting their knickers in a twist about a bad case of the ‘flu. There’s another view and that is that the government’s response is a shit show. The lunatics will say that its conspiracy, others will say that its cock up.

In some(?) months, the final tally will be in, public enquiries would have their initial reports in probably, and we will all have a much better idea of what has gone well and what has not. Happy to eat my virtual hat if BJ has done the business and better for the country short and long term if that is the case.
Well we have what we have. A couple of things obtain.
There is no comparator in this country as we don’t have the brilliant Lib Dem’s or Labour Governments to compare with. It’s also fairly pointless comparing us with other countries. It’s also compounded by the fact that the Scientists barely understand what the disease is or how it works, so the scientists have been wrong and they would have remained wrong with any other government. Best scientific advice is just that, but no guarantee.
so in effect we have government by committee ,it’s just that some aren’t on it, so they can point the finger. We’ve also had a whole batch of misinformation from various sources which are supposed to be impeccable. But then, I’m not totally convinced this is just about Covid....
 
I don’t doubt that he (and his wider family) are intelligent, witty, engaging and affable. Being a good dinner party guest doesn’t make you a good leader of your country in arguably its greatest crisis science WW2.

A small example, If he had more effective intelligence and emotional intelligence, he would have got and listened to some honest feedback from someone prepared to speak truth unto power on his last 2 pre-recorded messages to the nation and then had them rescripted and re-recorded. They were both rambling and incoherent and utterly risible to the country at large. It’s not about soaring oratory, but it is about clear communication.

There’s 2 views here. One is that it’s all going swimmingly, a bunch of snowflakes and the woke are getting their knickers in a twist about a bad case of the ‘flu. There’s another view and that is that the government’s response is a shit show. The lunatics will say that its conspiracy, others will say that its cock up.

In some(?) months, the final tally will be in, public enquiries would have their initial reports in probably, and we will all have a much better idea of what has gone well and what has not. Happy to eat my virtual hat if BJ has done the business and better for the country short and long term if that is the case.
I think I belong to “the country at large“.
Not a single person has told me they thought the two messages referred to were “utterly risible”, or anything resembling that.
 

Helm

MIA
Moderator
Book Reviewer
I think I belong to “the country at large“.
Not a single person has told me they thought the two messages referred to were “utterly risible”, or anything resembling that.
Same here, it's almost as if some people were watching with a pre-made viewpoint.
 
I don’t doubt that he (and his wider family) are intelligent, witty, engaging and affable. Being a good dinner party guest doesn’t make you a good leader of your country in arguably its greatest crisis science WW2.

A small example, If he had more effective intelligence and emotional intelligence, he would have got and listened to some honest feedback from someone prepared to speak truth unto power on his last 2 pre-recorded messages to the nation and then had them rescripted and re-recorded. They were both rambling and incoherent and utterly risible to the country at large. It’s not about soaring oratory, but it is about clear communication.

There’s 2 views here. One is that it’s all going swimmingly, a bunch of snowflakes and the woke are getting their knickers in a twist about a bad case of the ‘flu. There’s another view and that is that the government’s response is a shit show. The lunatics will say that its conspiracy, others will say that its cock up.

In some(?) months, the final tally will be in, public enquiries would have their initial reports in probably, and we will all have a much better idea of what has gone well and what has not. Happy to eat my virtual hat if BJ has done the business and better for the country short and long term if that is the case.
Boris wasn’t elected to lead the country in a crisis. He was elected to get Brexit done. No party is ever going to get elected if it’s leader pitches that he or she was the man for the next black swan crisis. Parties are elected because they pitch a manifesto that deals best with the immediate concerns and aspirations of the electorate.

It’s also pretty clear that the Government (and country) has been badly let down by the public sector bodies that are supposed to deliver policy and capability. From the abject failure of PHE over testing to that of NHS procurement over PPE, through the unbelievable clinical incompetence of discharging elderly COVID cases into care homes to the shonky Ferguson modelling and much more, performance has been massively lacking.

Add in the Byzantine structure of UK governance and devolution, the toxic political bias of much of the media, union obstruction etc etc and Boris is on a hiding to nothing. However good a leader in crisis he is, couldn’t win, a situation exacerbated by his own health.
 
...to the shonky Ferguson modelling...
I'm curious. On 16th March, Ferguson's team release a paper that predicts a quarter-million deaths if we don't lock down harder (back when DC is allegedly muttering about "herd immunity", and the Cheltenham Festival was allowed to go ahead). We're already at 60,000 excess deaths after a hard lockdown, when the model was muttering about restricting us to a total of 40,000 deaths over two years, for the restrictions we've seen. What's so implausible about a quarter-million dead if we'd left the schools and workplaces open?

If anything, the model has been demonstrated to be too optimistic. We're past the number of deaths it estimated, for the measures that it estimated. Which is hardly a surprise, because they only finished writing it at the start of March.

The model's code may be crap, but as some wise man once said; "All models are wrong; but some are useful". In this case, it was useful in that it finally succeeded in persuading the Government to lock down the country, albeit a week later than it should have happened.
 
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I don’t doubt that he (and his wider family) are intelligent, witty, engaging and affable. Being a good dinner party guest doesn’t make you a good leader of your country in arguably its greatest crisis science WW2.

A small example, If he had more effective intelligence and emotional intelligence, he would have got and listened to some honest feedback from someone prepared to speak truth unto power on his last 2 pre-recorded messages to the nation and then had them rescripted and re-recorded. They were both rambling and incoherent and utterly risible to the country at large. It’s not about soaring oratory, but it is about clear communication.

There’s 2 views here. One is that it’s all going swimmingly, a bunch of snowflakes and the woke are getting their knickers in a twist about a bad case of the ‘flu. There’s another view and that is that the government’s response is a shit show. The lunatics will say that its conspiracy, others will say that its cock up.

In some(?) months, the final tally will be in, public enquiries would have their initial reports in probably, and we will all have a much better idea of what has gone well and what has not. Happy to eat my virtual hat if BJ has done the business and better for the country short and long term if that is the case.
Oh dear, still having to pay for your internet?

If only Jezza was P M...
 
I'm curious. On 16th March, Ferguson's team release a paper that predicts a quarter-million deaths if we don't lock down harder (back when DC is allegedly muttering about "herd immunity", and the Cheltenham Festival was allowed to go ahead). We're already at 60,000 excess deaths after a hard lockdown, when the model was muttering about restricting us to a total of 40,000 deaths over two years, for the restrictions we've seen. What's so implausible about a quarter-million dead if we'd left the schools and workplaces open?

If anything, the model has been demonstrated to be too optimistic. We're past the number of deaths it estimated, for the measures that it estimated. Which is hardly a surprise, because they only finished writing it at the start of March.

The model's code may be crap, but as some wise man once said; "All models are wrong; but some are useful". In this case, it was useful in that it finally succeeded in persuading the Government to lock down the country, albeit a week later than it should have happened.
Just over half of the excess deaths are a result of lockdown, not COVID-19. They are people who have died because they have been denied medical treatment for other causes.

The fact that there is an apparent correlation between the predicted deaths and actual deaths doesn’t mean that there would be the death rate predicted with no lockdown or a less severe lockdown. It could be a random coincidence.

Other countries have had significantly lower death rates with minimal lockdown, without the deep damage to their economies or the large spike in excess deaths amongst the non-infected.
 

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