Boris - The Prime Minister

First thoughts on PMBoris, will he make a difference?


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I suspect more it was a Registrar on a power trip, or something more mundane like the correct shade of ink for microfiche etc.
He certainly wasn’t on a power trip. We’d had a good long chat. He’d spent years on Attenborough’s team as the badger expert: a common interest which I had via the head of biology at school who was THE acknowledge badger expert in the UK, and had tutored this Registrar in his PhD (on badgers).
@Brotherton Lad, yes, ‘Registrar’s Ink’ was the term he used. I suspect I was just overthinking with the biocoding.
Having said that, it would still be a good verification means.
 

Joker62

ADC
Book Reviewer
The other challenge is that it will delay issue of the Death Cert and, you can't do anything to sort their affairs with that (as I have discovered).

On a related note, you don't get even a single copy of the Death Certificate without paying £11 for each one, and every organisation wants an original!
Strange that, we had 6 printed at the cost you mentioned and still have 5 left, despite being in touch with every organisation you could thinnk of, stockbrokers, banks, solicitors, insurance companies, private pension companies and thery seemed happy with either a scan or photocopy.
 
Strange that, we had 6 printed at the cost you mentioned and still have 5 left, despite being in touch with every organisation you could thinnk of, stockbrokers, banks, solicitors, insurance companies, private pension companies and thery seemed happy with either a scan or photocopy.
Not really. You can’t always tell, particularly with banks, building societies and insurance companies.
I took the 10, made a number of photocopies, then asked the different organisation which they would accept.
 

BuggerAll

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
I have been wary of the size of the Covid-19 deaths reported for some time. A friend of mine lost her 93 year old mother which was hard enough for the family with restricted numbers able to attend the funeral. However the cause of death was shown as "Frail and elderly" and "Pneumonia" issues (can't remember the exact phrase) but tagged on was Coronavirus. The family knew nothing of the last and when queried they were told their mother was moved out of the Royal Infirmary to the local hospital and when she left the RI she did not have CV-19, three days later when she died it was added to her death cert so had apparently caught it in the three days she was in the local hospital. I doubt very much if she actually died with CV-19 but then again, I am not a doctor, but neither do I see them as Gods who can't be challenged. I can say the family are not too happy with the death cert and are completely unsure how/why she actually died.
I know of people who have gone from asymptotic to being admitted to hospital in in 48 hours and dead within 3 hours of that.

I think it’s tinfoil hat territory but I could dream up a few reasons why people might want to massage the figures of deaths in care homes:

1. COVID 19 cause of death could cover up failure of care;

2. Lots of COVID 19 deaths in care homes plays well to the ‘evil Tories cruelly abandoned care home residents to their fate’ narrative;

3. The government is desperate to increase the numbers of deaths to justify its continued controls on the population and the damage done to economy.

It’s possible that deranged individuals might be doing 1 and 2 but almost impossible that it could be a systematic conspiracy. There are too many honest doctors and healthcare staff.

3 is just bonkers.
 
No, it's a law- that has nothing to do with policing by consent.
I agree that it has nothing to do with policing by consent. It was in reference to someone who suggested earlier that it was (in relation to tracking and tracing) and who introduced the phrase into the discussion. Creating legislation is not the province of the police. It is the province of parliament, as are the penalties for infraction.

My point is that with only a dependency on goodwill to uphold tracking and tracing, the idea is virtually pointless. It is open to disregarding by the wilfully uncooperative and to misinterpretation by those who believe it to be (with some justification) discretionary.

Introduce it as a requirement or don't introduce it as a requirement. I'm easy either way. But don't confuse an already confused situation by saying 'This is what we want to happen, but we can't or won't enforce it. It's up to you'.

This is especially true of tracking and tracing, where individuals will be required to go into quarantine because they may have, according to the authorities, come into contact with an infected person.

So if wer'e going to hound Cummings then lets hound Kinnock et al with equanimity and get them all to go.
The regulations apply to all, but is it not natural that more interest is to be generated by those who are directly involved in the design and implementation of Covid-19 policy? Yes, they could go chasing round after Kinnock or Blackford and anyone else and then start on the covidiots chucking frisbees on the beach. Can you not see that from the press point of view, as well as the public interest point of view, there is quite a difference?

If Blackford or Kinnock were at the top table and i/c Covid-19 policy, then they would get hammered.

Where does the whataboutery begin and end?
 

Auld-Yin

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So what do you have up there in lieu? Gen question as I didn't realise there were no coroners in Scotland.
The Procurator Fiscal deals with these issues.
 

BuggerAll

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
I agree that it has nothing to do with policing by consent. It was in reference to someone who suggested earlier that it was (in relation to tracking and tracing) and who introduced the phrase into the discussion. Creating legislation is not the province of the police. It is the province of parliament, as are the penalties for infraction.

My point is that with only a dependency on goodwill to uphold tracking and tracing, the idea is virtually pointless. It is open to disregarding by the wilfully uncooperative and to misinterpretation by those who believe it to be (with some justification) discretionary.

Introduce it as a requirement or don't introduce it as a requirement. I'm easy either way. But don't confuse an already confused situation by saying 'This is what we want to happen, but we can't or won't enforce it. It's up to you'.

This is especially true of tracking and tracing, where individuals will be required to go into quarantine because they may have, according to the authorities, come into contact with an infected person.



The regulations apply to all, but is it not natural that more interest is to be generated by those who are directly involved in the design and implementation of Covid-19 policy? Yes, they could go chasing round after Kinnock or Blackford and anyone else and then start on the covidiots chucking frisbees on the beach. Can you not see that from the press point of view, as well as the public interest point of view, there is quite a difference?

If Blackford or Kinnock were at the top table and i/c Covid-19 policy, then they would get hammered.

Where does the whataboutery begin and end?
I think test and trace will only work with the consent of the population. Legislation would be impossible to enforce and therefore nugatory. People who are not going to consent will simply lie. Unless you are going to turn us into a police state and only allow people out with a licence. Standby to get your riot kit on through the long hot summer if you get that.

I don’t think Kinnoch et al should be hounded by the press. It’s simply the hypocrisy that sticks in the craw.

Cummings has not committed any crime. He has not done anything unsafe. Trying to twist the law in order to get your man is far worse that the accusations against him.

The Labour party mouthpiece on Today this morning was asked if the Shadow Attorney General thinks Cummings broke the law. Answer came there none because they know he didn’t. Being the BBC he wasn’t pressed on the matter.

Its clearly the reason SKS has gone to ground. He doesn’t want to have to admit this whole story is nonsense.
 
Unless you are going to turn us into a police state and only allow people out with a licence. Standby to get your riot kit on through the long hot summer if you get that.
Absolute tripe. There are penalties for every kind of infringement of the law, from not wearing a car seatbelt and failing to buy a rail ticket through to assault, rape and murder.

Do we live in a police state now?
 
Absolute tripe. There are penalties for every kind of infringement of the law, from not wearing a car seatbelt and failing to buy a rail ticket through to assault, rape and murder.

Do we live in a police state now?
And equally, because a police officer chooses to take no action and uses their discretion, doesn’t mean that an offence has not happened. Just that they have decided on NFA.

A crime is still recorded on the local police system, with an outcome and a justification for that decision made.

Eg: a person steals a mars bar from the local shop, person is stopped and police attends. The person in question shows contrition, has no previous and apologises. The owner is happy with this and the police decided that NFA is appropriate.

The crime is a minor breach of the theft act but it’s appropriate to take NFA. A crime of theft is recorded, that’s undeniable. When asked, the police might say that an offence of theft might have happened, because only a full court case can categorically find them guilty, however we all know that the mars bar was stolen.
 

Themanwho

LE
Book Reviewer
The other challenge is that it will delay issue of the Death Cert and, you can't do anything to sort their affairs with that (as I have discovered).

On a related note, you don't get even a single copy of the Death Certificate without paying £11 for each one, and every organisation wants an original!
My Mum died in early April, sadly (non-Covid); the death certs don't take too long to come through - less than a week IIRC. We ordered 4 certs, and sent them off as required; most recipients sent them back within a fortnight.
 

Auld-Yin

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Yeah, I never did get that. That said I only dealt with the local registrar in Perth when both my parents died up there.
Yes, as in England, it is the Registrar that we have most dealings with for hatches, matches and despatches.
 
Yeah, I never did get that. That said I only dealt with the local registrar in Perth when both my parents died up there.
I had the pleasure of living in Perth for 9 years as a youngster, lovely city.
 
Strange that, we had 6 printed at the cost you mentioned and still have 5 left, despite being in touch with every organisation you could thinnk of, stockbrokers, banks, solicitors, insurance companies, private pension companies and thery seemed happy with either a scan or photocopy.
Interesting. We got a copy free when registering my mum's death in March 2017 but had to pay, I think it was £1.50 a copy for the others we needed.

This time, no free copy and £11 each!

Both Hampshire County Council.

I have had to send scanned versions and hard copies in the post to HSBC and the various life insurers and share brokers.
 

BuggerAll

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
And equally, because a police officer chooses to take no action and uses their discretion, doesn’t mean that an offence has not happened. Just that they have decided on NFA.

A crime is still recorded on the local police system, with an outcome and a justification for that decision made.

Eg: a person steals a mars bar from the local shop, person is stopped and police attends. The person in question shows contrition, has no previous and apologises. The owner is happy with this and the police decided that NFA is appropriate.

The crime is a minor breach of the theft act but it’s appropriate to take NFA. A crime of theft is recorded, that’s undeniable. When asked, the police might say that an offence of theft might have happened, because only a full court case can categorically find them guilty, however we all know that the mars bar was stolen.
All that is correct and I think its perfectly correct that police officers have some discretion about disposing if minor offences. As for seatbelts and such like you can see if someone is wearing a seatbelt or not.

How do you intend to see if someone is breaking test and trace laws? How would you propose to investigate and prove that someone is lying if they say they have not had any contact with anyone when being interviewed? How would you avoid the likelihood that people would be encouraged to lie because they fear being prosecuted for breaking the rules on social conduct? How are you going to know that any individual has been told to isolate?

You might be able to prosecute the odd flagrant offender but to what end? It’s only going to work if people choose to cooperate. Setting up a system that antagonises people isn’t going to encourage them to cooperate. Making laws that are close to impossible to enforce is pointless especially if the laws are widely viewed as unfair.

Perhaps I have a touching faith in the common sense and decency of the majority who will want to cooperate. I think treating them like adults will encourage them to want to.

I’m not sure which is the greater number. Those who will decide to cooperate because they are being treated like adults or those who would only cooperate because its the law and they fear being caught breaking it. I know which system I would rather live in.
 
Interesting. We got a copy free when registering my mum's death in March 2017 but had to pay, I think it was £1.50 a copy for the others we needed.

This time, no free copy and £11 each!

Both Hampshire County Council.

I have had to send scanned versions and hard copies in the post to HSBC and the various life insurers and share brokers.
With my mother I got two copies at £11 each, one for me and one for the solicitors. I then filled out a form which the solicitor used to deal with every bank, insurer etc all at once. Didn’t yours do the same?
 

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