Boris - The Prime Minister

First thoughts on PMBoris, will he make a difference?


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ClentBoy

War Hero
The danger is that we create yet more zombie businesses which only exist to pay back debt and have no space invest and grow

The money is going to get consumed financing irreducible cash burn; just keeping the doors open and plant serviceable so that it can be restarted. It’s not going to fund productivity. It can’t, since the businesses largely closed.

I think support to businesses is to be very focussed. Keep those with high capital investments going and write off much of the debt at the end. But don’t fund businesses where there are low barriers to entry.
The UK Government has so far put together quite a restrained sensible set of packages towards the Self Employed, Those on PAYE, Limited Companies and PLC's. The response to the crisis has been met quite measured by the government. The detail to accountants of the schemes from HMRC is quite sketchy to accountants at present and we have yet to get full guidance from our institutes and as always the devil is in the detail. I doubt whether in the long term PSBC will be to badly affected The Treasury is obviously drawing on reserves that have been set aside for a crisis of which we are now currently in.
 

Truxx

LE
The UK Government has so far put together quite a restrained sensible set of packages towards the Self Employed, Those on PAYE, Limited Companies and PLC's. The response to the crisis has been met quite measured by the government. The detail to accountants of the schemes from HMRC is quite sketchy to accountants at present and we have yet to get full guidance from our institutes and as always the devil is in the detail. I doubt whether in the long term PSBC will be to badly affected The Treasury is obviously drawing on reserves that have been set aside for a crisis of which we are now currently in.
Of this (sensible) I am less convinced. Well meaning for sure, but as at today, notwithstanding the declarations, nothing has actually happened. I am watching from this end of the telescope with a significant degree of interest.
 

Mr_Baiter

War Hero
I particularly liked the reference to the whole of the public sector as parasitical.
It's difficult for me - self employed business owner with a couple of people employed. Everyone with half an ounce of common sense sees the frontline public sector as crucial. NHS, military and all blue light services, all critical service providers- refuse collection, education, certain parts of transport etc. Then you have the (to my mind) undeniably wasteful bits - multi tiered local government, pilgrims (full time union reps in the public sector paid for a notional job that they dont do), very many BBC employees and many others paid from taxation and providing little or nothing in return.

I prefer to see the first public sector group from the above paragraph as enablers for the private sector to pay for them and itself. The third group I see as parasites in the true sense of the word - organisms who take without giving anything back and weaken the host/provider - this group weaken both of the first two.

If you think of the private sector - the only income generator - as the host then you have the critical public sector as the symbiotic partner helping to keep the host running and then the third group as the virus that just feeds itself at the expense of the host and eventually weakens or kills it.

Apologies if the above is nonsense, I had a very good lunch today.
 

ClentBoy

War Hero
Of this (sensible) I am less convinced. Well meaning for sure, but as at today, notwithstanding the declarations, nothing has actually happened. I am watching from this end of the telescope with a significant degree of interest.
If you have worked with HMRC as long as I have the speed of the outline of the schemes was quite breathtaking it takes time for HMRC systems used by accountants to be updated and the software modified alongside the guidance notes I am quite surprised how far we have actually progressed with the proposed schemes to be fair bearing in mind we are right at the end of the current tax year.
 

Grownup_Rafbrat

LE
Book Reviewer
I see this sort of thing a lot on here. How does a private sector business actually 'generate' income?
Makes stuff and sells it, I think.
 
Makes stuff and sells it, I think.
I know what I think the answer will be. I just want to make sure I've got the right idea before asking the questions that I've had in the back of my head a few times but never got round to asking. No sense in starting discussion before knowing what the discussion is about.
 
So we now rehash the old teeth arms v. enablers VFM argument. We shall end up with they are both needed in a symbiotic relationship. Mr_Baiter makes a good point though about the parasitic part of the public sector. Losing some or all of that may be a necessary and desirable side-effect of this whole shitstorm.
 
So we now rehash the old teeth arms v. enablers VFM argument. We shall end up with they are both needed in a symbiotic relationship. Mr_Baiter makes a good point though about the parasitic part of the public sector. Losing some or all of that may be a necessary and desirable side-effect of this whole shitstorm.
Hopefully we can get rid of those parts of the private sector that don’t serve the country very well also.
 

Mr_Baiter

War Hero
I see this sort of thing a lot on here. How does a private sector business actually 'generate' income?
The way I see it (and very happy to be shot down) without private enterprise you would have a closed economy - one sector providing a service or goods to another sector and so one but with the same amount of money being circulated over and over. Only private sector creates income outside of this loop which is what drives growth. Ultimately primary and secondary industries (raw materials and manufacturing respectively) drive economies. Everything else feeds from that.

But I have no degree at all let alone one in economics and I'm sure someone wise will be along shortly to contradict everything just said and destroy my cosy world view.
 
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Auld-Yin

ADC
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Reviews Editor
I think this thread is moving off in to a very interesting, but not relevant to the thread, area. It might be worth starting a thread on how to deal with the non-producers of the country.
 
It's difficult for me - self employed business owner with a couple of people employed. Everyone with half an ounce of common sense sees the frontline public sector as crucial. NHS, military and all blue light services, all critical service providers- refuse collection, education, certain parts of transport etc. Then you have the (to my mind) undeniably wasteful bits - multi tiered local government, pilgrims (full time union reps in the public sector paid for a notional job that they dont do), very many BBC employees and many others paid from taxation and providing little or nothing in return.

I prefer to see the first public sector group from the above paragraph as enablers for the private sector to pay for them and itself. The third group I see as parasites in the true sense of the word - organisms who take without giving anything back and weaken the host/provider - this group weaken both of the first two.

If you think of the private sector - the only income generator - as the host then you have the critical public sector as the symbiotic partner helping to keep the host running and then the third group as the virus that just feeds itself at the expense of the host and eventually weakens or kills it.

Apologies if the above is nonsense, I had a very good lunch today.
I largely agree with the sentiment of your post. Having been in the public sector (Army) for many years and having since been in business both large and small, I have developed a similar view. There are functions of state which can only be carried out by the state.

I question the interfaces though. Quite clearly, security and the enforcement of law and order are public functions.

But health is, I think more complex. The UK already delivers much of its primary health care in the private sector; GP practices are private businesses. There are countries with where first responders are in the private sector. There are others where secondary healthcare is almost entirely provided by the private sector but where care itself is free at the point of use. There are countries where you pay to use a publicly provided ambulance. Point being, there are many ways of skinning the cat.

I fear that with the understandable public praise for the NHS, people miss the fact that front line staff can only do their job with the backing of a healthy health industry. I think that the uniquely British way of delivering health has and will be found wanting.
 

Whining Civvy

War Hero
I think this thread is moving off in to a very interesting, but not relevant to the thread, area. It might be worth starting a thread on how to deal with the non-producers of the country.
This being the website that it is, the very first reply to the OP of that thread would be simple, short, involve holes in the ground, and would be agreed with by everyone bar one or two. So I'm not entirely sure about that.
 
So we now rehash the old teeth arms v. enablers VFM argument. We shall end up with they are both needed in a symbiotic relationship. Mr_Baiter makes a good point though about the parasitic part of the public sector. Losing some or all of that may be a necessary and desirable side-effect of this whole shitstorm.
There'll be job cuts, but the legal and regulatory framework the public sector is forced to work in "to prove they are value for money" had actually gone so far before I was made redundant, that I dread to think what the situation is like now.

Edit: mong spelling.
 
Back to the thread, saw Boris on the news last night, he looked rough AF, hope he gets better soon , God knows who the replacement would be if anything happened
 
But health is, I think more complex. The UK already delivers much of its primary health care in the private sector; GP practices are private businesses. There are countries with where first responders are in the private sector. There are others where secondary healthcare is almost entirely provided by the private sector but where care itself is free at the point of use. There are countries where you pay to use a publicly provided ambulance. Point being, there are many ways of skinning the cat.
The NHS, to survive, needs to be split into Primary and Secondary Health Care.

Primary - Free at point of use

Secondary - Provided by the NHS at cost to the recipient.

No intention of launching into a 2 page list of Treatments that should be paid for by the recipient, far easier to say that the NHS should be free for Breathing, Bleeding, Breaks, Burns and infectious ( and other ) diseases.

£5000 a pop IVF treatment and £2000 a pop boob jobs, etc etc, should be getting paid for by the recipient, not the State.

The NHS should be one of the State entities that are largely self funding.
 
Back to the thread, saw Boris on the news last night, he looked rough AF, hope he gets better soon , God knows who the replacement would be if anything happened
Cabinet/Govt is effectively a sub-committee of Privy Council, and next in line is First Secy of State - as confirmed by Gove yesterday.

No party machinations involved
 
The NHS, to survive, needs to be split into Primary and Secondary Health Care.

Primary - Free at point of use

Secondary - Provided by the NHS at cost to the recipient.

No intention of launching into a 2 page list of Treatments that should be paid for by the recipient, far easier to say that the NHS should be free for Breathing, Bleeding, Breaks, Burns and infectious ( and other ) diseases.

£5000 a pop IVF treatment and £2000 a pop boob jobs, etc etc, should be getting paid for by the recipient, not the State.

The NHS should be one of the State entities that are largely self funding.
Is that per pair or each? The catalogue for those would make for interesting 'reading'. In fact, private enterprise could take that job on - Oh wait - it's been done.
 

Grownup_Rafbrat

LE
Book Reviewer
Is that per pair or each? The catalogue for those would make for interesting 'reading'. In fact, private enterprise could take that job on - Oh wait - it's been done.
Except if your big (or small) boobs cause mental elf issues, or wanting to change gender makes you depressed. At which point the NHS coughs the full cost.

I would also charge the frequent flyer drunks who fill wards by becoming senseless every other night. If they can afford the booze, they can afford to pay for the stomach pump and charcoal.
 

Yokel

LE
Is that per pair or each? The catalogue for those would make for interesting 'reading'. In fact, private enterprise could take that job on - Oh wait - it's been done.
I thought that the NHS only provided breast enlargement when they was a clinical need, identified by a Psychiatrist perhaps, or reconstruction after breast surgery for cancer or injury?

Likewise access to IVF treatment is rationed.

If we want to save future healthcare costs then we need to change behavior - less smoking, less drugs, less alcohol, more exercise, more healthy food...
 

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