Boris - The Prime Minister

First thoughts on PMBoris, will he make a difference?


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More chance of getting reasoned debate, that's for sure
"I could ask how the views of those that voted to remain in the EU are being considered but I don't want to confuse you too much."
You do get that you lost the referendum and your views mean jack-shit, right? Has nobody told you that truth yet?
You should do a site search for Brexit threads, as this has been debated ad infinitum on arrse.
Still, Russian money, bots, bribery and thick voters won it for us uneducated plebs, eh.
 
That would be better than the farcical version we have now.
Your denigration of my suggestion would carry slightly more weight if it wasn't exactly what happens in every 'democratic' process in the country right now, or can you show me how the views of the nearly 15million that didn't cote Tory are being accommodated.
I could ask how the views of those that voted to remain in the EU are being considered but I don't want to confuse you too much.
If we go by FPTP, you get a Boris government. If we go by PR, you get a Boris government. And we go tactical, not only do you disenfranchise millions (a bad thing according to you) but we end up with a government no one wanted.

You are complaining about a system that, if it were replaced, would not solve the problems. It would just redirect them.

But, hey, who cares as long as your guys get in eh?

I could ask if you understand irony, but I wouldn’t want to confuse you.
 
I could ask how the views of those that voted to remain in the EU are being considered but I don't want to confuse you too much.
Their views were considered in the Referendum, and I did understand that many found the result upsetting.

But I lost all sympathy when 5 million of the losers tried to steal democracy after vomiting hatred, prejudice and chauvinism over those who dared to be different.

May I suggest that, if you want a discussion about disenfranchisement, you don’t ask for sympathy about those losers who actively attempted to disenfranchise 17m voters.
 
Yeah, because that's how 'democracy' works. The losers are always accommodated.
We could always develop more reservoirs for your tears and dribble.

There is more to a decent democracy than two wolves and a sheep deciding what is for dinner, as someone once said.
 
And if Boris said, I'm elected, you're not, ma'am. The election will go ahead.

Exactly what could HMQ do about it? Now't. That's what. And I'd agree with Boris.

She'd not have to do anything.

The PM doesn't have the power to dissolve parliament. Only the monarch can do that. Without parliament being dissolved, a GE can't take place. The PM can claim as much as he/she likes that a GE is taking place, but the constitution, and thus the law, doesn't allow one without a dissolution.

To change that would require an Act of Parliament. It would mark the de facto end of the monarchy as it currently stands. Can you see the entire Conservative Party supporting that? And in any case, the necessary Act would take longer to implement than it would for Labour to elect a new leadership team, thwarting the whole point of the wheeze in the first place.

You might concur with Boris, but I'm afraid electoral law wouldn't - but I repeat the point that whatever his faults, it'd be astounding were he to attempt the hypothetical scenario posited and I'm merely pointing out why it'd be almost certain to fail if he were to lose his marbles and try it.
 
PR hasn't been working for Germany. Didn't Merkel close down her nuke power stations in order to get the Green Party on-side? Which led to their massive dependence on Russia's energy.

I think Macron's about to have a lot of fun getting policy through too.

PR leads to coalition governments, watered down policy, and bad decisions as above.
Yet it seems to work in other countries.
 
She'd not have to do anything.

The PM doesn't have the power to dissolve parliament. Only the monarch can do that. Without parliament being dissolved, a GE can't take place. The PM can claim as much as he/she likes that a GE is taking place, but the constitution, and thus the law, doesn't allow one without a dissolution.

To change that would require an Act of Parliament. It would mark the de facto end of the monarchy as it currently stands. Can you see the entire Conservative Party supporting that? And in any case, the necessary Act would take longer to implement than it would for Labour to elect a new leadership team, thwarting the whole point of the wheeze in the first place.

You might concur with Boris, but I'm afraid electoral law wouldn't - but I repeat the point that whatever his faults, it'd be astounding were he to attempt the hypothetical scenario posited and I'm merely pointing out why it'd be almost certain to fail if he were to lose his marbles and try it.

Slight ammendment, the monarch sits at the pleasure of Parliament. She's a figurehead that can be replaced and monarchs have been replaced. Her own uncle jumped before he was chopped.

Shame, this democracy sh1t, init bruv.
 

shadowonarun

Old-Salt
Their views were considered in the Referendum, and I did understand that many found the result upsetting.

But I lost all sympathy when 5 million of the losers tried to steal democracy after vomiting hatred, prejudice and chauvinism over those who dared to be different.

May I suggest that, if you want a discussion about disenfranchisement, you don’t ask for sympathy about those losers who actively attempted to disenfranchise 17m voters.
So, someone else who only thinks democracy counts when he agrees with the result.
 

shadowonarun

Old-Salt
"I could ask how the views of those that voted to remain in the EU are being considered but I don't want to confuse you too much."
You do get that you lost the referendum and your views mean jack-shit, right? Has nobody told you that truth yet?
You should do a site search for Brexit threads, as this has been debated ad infinitum on arrse.
Still, Russian money, bots, bribery and thick voters won it for us uneducated plebs, eh.
You do realise I was posting that question to another poster who was objecting to PR on the grounds it would ignore the votes of the thirteen million tory voters, but thanks for confirming you only think voters count if they agree with you. I'll look forward to reminding you of that when this government gets handed it's arse on a plate at the next General Election.
Feel free to pick up on any typos to avoid needing to do any thinking.
 
So, someone else who only thinks democracy counts when he agrees with the result.
Not at all. Since Thatcher, I’ve never had a PM I’ve wanted delivering policies I want. But that’s democracy.

If Remain had won the Referendum, I would have accepted the result and moved on.

And I am fully aware of the shortcomings of FPTP. However, all the alternatives are worse.

If you vote tactically to keep someone out, you get a government you didn’t really want. Which is ironic as you have deluded yourself into voting for something you don’t want to stop getting something you don’t want.

PR removes power from the voter and gives it to the party leaders. Under PR, every Tory MP would owe their place on the candidate list to Boris. Upset Boris, get moved down (or off) the list, guaranteeing you have no job after the next election. Suck up to Boris and move up the list and guarantee a job after the next election. Even if the Tory vote collapsed, the only people as Tory MPs would be those most supportive of Boris. Why would you want to give Boris even more power to stomp out party rebellions? Isn’t that a bit ironic for you to want to give Boris more control and job security?

You complain about disenfranchisement and highlight what to you is the injustice for a group of people who, in UK’s entire democratic history, tried to create the biggest disenfranchisement ever. Very ironic.

You complain about Labour and Illiberal Undemocrat voters being disenfranchised, and your solution is to try and disenfranchise Tory voters. Again, pretty ironic.

What you are essentially saying is that you don’t like democracy, you don’t want to be bound by democracy, and you want power given to other politicians, even though you don’t actually know what sort of government you’d get. That’s just stupid.

But, then again, if you were a supporter of a second referendum, stupidity, arrogance, self-aggrandisement and delusions of grandeur would be fairly common personality traits.
 
like Scotland for instance?
No like Iceland, Sweden, Finland, Denmark, Greenland, Switzerland...

There will always be issues with any chosen way. I'm sure there are issues in the countries I listed above that certain citizens feel that their PR style is either causing or exacerbating, but it's almost always likely to be far more complicated than that.
 
No like Iceland, Sweden, Finland, Denmark, Greenland, Switzerland...

There will always be issues with any chosen way. I'm sure there are issues in the countries I listed above that certain citizens feel that their PR style is either causing or exacerbating, but it's almost always likely to be far more complicated than that.
NO! you don't get to chose the type of PR , you may like the fluffy , workable examples , but as you've been shown , you get Germany under Merkle held to ransom by the greens , or Scotland , with a totally inept/ corrupt government , held to ransom by the greens
 
NO! you don't get to chose the type of PR , you may like the fluffy , workable examples , but as you've been shown , you get Germany under Merkle held to ransom by the greens , or Scotland , with a totally inept/ corrupt government , held to ransom by the greens
For me, it’s not so much the influence of the small parties, it’s that you end up with the same politicians creating the same governments pushing the same policies, no matter how the public vote.

Before the election, each party has x number of senior politicians in power, supported by y number of drones . These senior politicians push their favoured policies.

After the election, each party has x number of senior politicians in power, supported by +/-y number of drones. These senior politicians push their favoured policies.

That means, no matter how people vote, you get the same personalities with the same policies coming together and dishing up power between themselves.
 
Yet it seems to work in other countries.

Yes, PR worked for Germany's far right AfD. Had they FPTP, I doubt the AfD would have such a large representation in the Bundestag.

It would've worked well for UKIP too; they got nearly 13% of the vote share in 2015 yet didn't get a single seat in parliament.

I take it you're a right-winger?

Or a right whinger who just refuses to accept a democratic outcome when it doesn't go your way?
 

Truxx

LE
"I could ask how the views of those that voted to remain in the EU are being considered but I don't want to confuse you too much."
You do get that you lost the referendum and your views mean jack-shit, right? Has nobody told you that truth yet?
You should do a site search for Brexit threads, as this has been debated ad infinitum on arrse.
Still, Russian money, bots, bribery and thick voters won it for us uneducated plebs, eh.
And the bus

Don't forget the bus
 
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